I think you have an excellent reason for making “Simcoe Day” the name of the holiday across the country.
But rather than a name change, I think what is badly needed out here is to make it an official holiday. One of the things that surprised me about Alberta is that it is not officially a holiday here. It was once, then it was “delisted” (is that the correct term to use?), and is no longer a statutory holiday. Many people and companies take it anyway, but there are always a few companies who demand that employees show up for work. It would be nice if the provincial legislature put it back in the books as a holiday, in order to put an end to the annual arguments between by-the-books employers and their employees.
We were watching the last bit of the game with a crowd in the mall where we were hiding from the heat this afternoon - we all let out a big groan when the US team scored the fourth goal. Wah.
As far as I can tell, the person who’s mostly talking about sovereignty in this campaign is Charest. Marois would rather let the issue die down; it’s not like she can benefit from it. But as the PQ is a notoriously undisciplined party, she has no choice but to at least pretend that she wants to do something about the issue. It’s called being a politician. You can almost compare it to federal Conservatives and socially conservative issues like same-sex marriage and abortion. (With the obvious difference that the CPC under Harper is much more disciplined that the PQ could ever hope to be.)
Despite being fluently bilingual, I want to be able to continue ordering sandwiches in French. And work, and meet people. I consider it extremely important that there be a place where I can live without having to speak a foreign language in day-to-day life. I don’t know if what you mean is that you believe francophones in Quebec should be more accommodating of the English language and anglophone community for the “economy”, but despite what anglophones seem to think, we’re already extremely accommodating. At some point we have to have some respect for ourselves, if we want others to respect us. This may be the most serious problem we face today.
I thought I remembered you say that despite initial misgivings, you’d come around to the idea that having unilingual English Supreme Court justices wasn’t a big deal. If I misremembered, I’m sorry. In any case, my comment was to demonstrate the hypocrisy in defending the unilingualism of federal upper public servants, while screaming bloody murder at the idea of a Quebec premier with bad English skills (and I’m not claiming you were the one who screamed the most). And after all, did all the New Brunswick and Ontario premiers (to name two provinces where the francophone community supposedly thrives) speak decent French? I’m fairly certain Mike Harris, just to name one, didn’t speak it. While I do recognize that English is more prevalent on a worldwide stage than French, and have no quarrel with this, I don’t see why we should strive for a bilingual Quebec inside a unilingual English Canada.
I’ve never gotten the impression that Quebec’s anglophone community cares about the fact that the province is mainly French-speaking, other than as an annoyance that forces them to learn a language they’d rather avoid. I feel that they’re trying to insulate themselves from and turn their back on the majority, which is totally the opposite of what francophones in other provinces – as well as other Canadian ethnic communities – are doing with respect to the anglophone majority, despite being in much more severe demographic trouble. Ibanez’s comment about “feeling the love” got to me, because it’s obvious that Ibanez has no love for me either and couldn’t care less if there wasn’t a francophone left in the province. It’s hypocritical of him.
You, of course, are a different case, being from a bicultural family. Maybe it’s possible to identify with the anglophone community of Quebec without dismissing the francophone community and its modern identity. I’m sorry if I offended you. But I feel that the anglophone community, both inside Quebec and outside, should show that it doesn’t oppose the existence of a francophone Quebec majority instead of just resorting to claims of racism. Which is mostly what I see from them. Again today a Liberal staffer had to apologize after comparing the PQ to the Nazis. I suggest all of you to imagine how it feels for someone like me, when I hear an eminently democratic party in my province, one for which I’ve voted in the past (though not always, unlike what you might think – heck, I even voted for the Charest Liberals in 2007) is compared with a group responsible for millions of deaths through war and genocide. I feel this sort of rhetoric is unacceptable. But this is what I see coming from English Canada (inside and outside Quebec).
Well, I’m not The Flying Dutchman. And he lives in BC. I have no objection to Alberta developing its resources, but if it starts affecting other Canadian provinces (when a pipeline crosses a provincial border, for example, or if the pollution caused by extraction causes environmental damage in other provinces) we start gaining a say.
English isn’t a foreign language anywhere in Canada, even in Quebec.
One person’s majority is another person’s minority. You’re the minority with an enclave of the actual majority living in your midst.
And if you prevent Alberta from developing those resources would you accept Alberta telling you what to do (or with holding), resources from you that you are benefiting from in lieu of? Eg. If you prevent Alberta from developing resources that costs it billions of dollars, should not Alberta be allowed to recoup those loses in other ways like withholding or clawing back transfer payments? It’s all great for you to say no when it costs you little, but when you have to pay that opportunity cost, would you be so free with your ‘no’?
You are aware that in Canada, English is not a foreign language? Spanish, yes, and Russian, and Italian; but English is an official language of Canada. It is not a foreign language.
Now, it is true that there are places in Canada where you might not be able to order a sandwich in your mother tongue; but then, there are also places in Canada where I cannot order a sandwich in my mother tongue. You make do, as do I; and in the end, with a bit of effort, we get what we want.
Most times, anyway. I will grant, HJ, that your English is much better than my French. So, you probably get what you want more often than I do.
It’s a foreign language for me. And for many Quebecers, it’s a language they don’t even speak. They need to be able to live and work in their country/province/whatever without having to learn foreign languages.
In Alberta, French is a foreign language. You shouldn’t expect to be able to use it there – though of course you may end up using it by mutual consent – and in fact unless otherwise agreed you should use English. Simple as that. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s good policy to offer services in many languages. The existence of a common language doesn’t mean that everyone will know it well.
Spoons, in a thread about the Albertan election you asked what I thought about the fact that a voting station in Calgary had info in many languages, but not in French. I read your post much later and so didn’t feel that it was opportune to respond, but I’ll do it here since it’s relevant. First, I’m somewhat surprised, given that French is a common language and that there is in fact a decent number of francophones from Quebec who’ve moved to Alberta. But I don’t care. Alberta can do what it wants when it comes to language policy, assuming it respects the Canadian constitution (and even then…) Furthermore, francophones who’ve moved from Quebec to Alberta are likely to think like me and to feel that when you cross the Ottawa River, you lose your language rights. So they won’t press the issue. I know I wouldn’t. And finally, not to make it sound like I think Albertans are petty, but if they feel they’re “sticking it to the Man” by having posters in many languages but not in French, and they blow some steam this way, then it’s a win-win situation. Maybe I’m off-base here, but it did strike me as a possibility.
Sorry if I sound brusque, but I’ve been reading all this English Canadian media, this thread and other Canada threads, the SomethingAwful thread about the Quebec election, and there’s obviously a fundamental disconnect between how francophones in Quebec and anglophones (everywhere in Canada, including Quebec) view this country and its language(s). Despite popular rhetoric, none of us is a Nazi, but we don’t even recognize the same set of facts. Anglophones expect that Canada being “bilingual” means that everywhere in Canada, English and French should have similar status. So when Quebec, for example, restricts English-language public school to actual anglophones, they think it’s completely racist and intended to destroy the English community. They compare it to the rest of Canada, which claims to “value” its French-language community and to serve it in its language (possibly subject to a “where numbers justify it” clause), and feel that Canada is open-minded and multicultural, while Quebec is xenophobic and oppressive.
I, a francophone, look at this, see how healthy Quebec’s anglophone community is despite claims of attempted extermination, then look at Canada’s French-language communities and laugh at the naivety of anglophones. In another post I wrote that if I moved to Alberta, I wouldn’t even expect to be officially served in French (which is true). I immediately received a bunch of responses from Albertans saying that of course I’d receive service in French, because Canada recognizes the right of official language communities blah blah blah. Listen, if you’re not francophone and haven’t actually tried to test your supposed language rights, you’ve got no standing to speak. I used to live in Gatineau, and the newspaper Le Droit often had these articles where a journalist tried to be served in English in Gatineau and in French in Ottawa, to see how different life was for both official language minorities. You can imagine how that usually went. And that’s in Ottawa, the city that scares (or fills with pride, depending on political leanings) many anglophones because of how French it is.
So let’s be realistic for a moment. I know anglophones aren’t naive, but like everyone else they like to toot their own horn and to feel like they’re great people. Canadians are an extremely proud people, and for those who are liberal-minded, much of this pride comes from the country’s open-mindedness and cultural mosaic and multiculturalism and bilingualism. They want to believe it. But I’m telling them that their country isn’t like they want to imagine it. I’m not saying Canada or Canadians are bad, but please lay down the exceptionalism for a moment. And as for the anglophone community of Quebec, do realise that as a francophone, what I see is that they’re thriving, they’re even still integrating a large amount of immigrants to Quebec – even more if we’re including interprovincial migrants – but they yearn for a passed time when they actually ruled. This is what I meant when I said that I don’t think we should strive for a bilingual Quebec inside a unilingual English Canada. No matter the rhetoric, the fact is that outside Quebec, Canada is an English-speaking country. If I’m to call this country my own, there needs to still be a place where it’s actually true, and where I don’t feel like an immigrant. Ottawa’s not that place, let alone Calgary.
Am I trying to prevent Alberta from developing their resources? There’s literally nothing I can do to stop it. All I hope is that it doesn’t poison my life. They can destroy the environment in their province, but if they want to destroy it in mine, I feel I have the right to say something.
As for transfer payments, I’m aware that Albertans would like to abolish the program (they don’t seem to know anything at all about Canada other than this), but that’s an issue between the provinces and the federal government. Call a constitutional convention if it’s important.
No, I’m sorry, you’re wrong. English and French are the two official languages of Canada, so there is no Canadian city, province or territory where either one could be a foreign language. English may not be your first language, your mother tongue, your native language or any other expression you care to name or coin, but it cannot be a foreign language to a Canadian.
I don’t think you’re in danger of the Alberta oil sands industry poisoning Quebec.
Well, that’s not even true. As far as I can tell actually living in Alberta, we* don’t mind the transfer payment system; we fully intend to get lots of money from it once the oil runs out (and the rest of you fuckers better not stiff us on it!).
*This “we” is my understanding of a general attitude in Alberta, not the results of any kind of scientific study.
You said you wanted a ‘say’. Which is either a meaningless statement, or that you think you should actually have some control.
I think it is important that the ROC, if they want to make new rules on how to govern resources and how they are transported, should shoulder some of the responsibility for loses accrued because of their wishes and not just expect a continual paycheck for something they have had no positive input into and would, if the truth be known, like to stop completely.
The thing I don’t get is why it’s only big bad Alberta who gets blamed…
There is significant gas production in BC, huge amounts of oil in Saskatchewan, and Manitoba’s new well licence count is up 25%. There’s oil and gas offshore of both Newfoundland and Nova Scotia.
Heck, even Quebec has shale gas (not that anyone is actively drilling it)
Because people only pay attention to headlines, and because somehow the oil sands are an environmental disaster. Strip mining the land to extract the oil is a visible indicator that we’re affecting the environment, whereas drilling and pumping are not as visible.
I don’t give a rat’s ass that we’re cutting down trees and digging big holes in the ground to extract oil in a barren wasteland where no one lives anyway.
If you live in Hollywood or Toronto and drive a Prius though, you automatically have a license to tell other people in remote areas what they get to do with their natural resources.
Well the obvious reason is the one Leaffan pointed out - strip mining vast tracks of land and having to house tailing pools that occasionally result in thousands of dead migratory birds tends to have high visibility.
The second, more subtle one is that cracking oil sands is incredibly energy intensive requiring massive amounts of water and natural gas be used to extract the oil. Pumping from a reservoir doesn’t and so appears to have a smaller environmental impact.
Don’t forget that Quebec was widely criticized for flooding vast tracks of land for the Jame’s Bay hydro projects. But that was years ago and large expanses of water look nicer than tailing ponds.
