# The CanaDoper Café, 2013 edition. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 1, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736 "2013-01-01T03:29:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1 "2013-01-01T03:29:31Z")
Happy New Year, everyone. It is now 2013 in Canada, and I want to take a moment to wish all Dopers, everywhere, a very happy and prosperous New Year. (Well, it’s 2013 for my friends in Newfoundland and Labrador, anyway. I, personally, have another hour and a half to wait.) This thread is a fresh start to an ongoing discussion of all things Canadian. (Here is a [link to the last page](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=636876&page=49) of the 2012 CanaDoper Café, and here is a [link to the 2011 ‘Canadian current events and politics thread’](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=608682).) If you are curious or knowledgeable about any aspect of Canadian history, politics, culture, law, sports, geography, current events - please, pour yourself something tasty and have a seat. As with the previous threads, I have one request to ask of you all - I hope to keep this in MPSIMS rather than Great Debates or The Pit, partly because there is no single debate to resolve, but also because I want to encourage some of our gentler voices to feel free to express their points of view. One of the great pleasures of previous Canadian-based threads has been that, while I may continue to disagree with the opinions of other CanaDopers, I have come to have a great respect for the people themselves. And with the NHL strike, the World Junior Championships, Chris Hadfield in orbit, the Idle No More blockades - there seems to be plenty to talk about… ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2 "2013-01-01T03:33:35Z")
As I said on the last thread, I’d never thought of getting someone else to start it… Here’s a proposal - how be for 2014, we make the person with the most posts in this thread start it? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/3 "2013-01-01T03:45:53Z")
Hey Doug, I knew you started last year’s, but didn’t realize you also started the same thread the year before. I can’t believe we’re into another brand shining new CanaDoper thread already. 2013 is going to be a very interesting year for me. I wish all of you other hosers the best of times. The juniors look poised to win the worlds. The NHL will probably be canned for this year. The Blue Jays have bought themselves a fine team and will be contenders. Canada’s economy will continue to grow and be enviable world-wide; we have the resources to dominate this century. Look out world: here comes Canada. ETA: Nope. It’s your thread to continue with. You own the rights. (The other Doug.) ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/4 "2013-01-01T04:12:39Z")
OK. Here we go. [Tim Hortons customers pay it forward 228 times in Winnipeg.](http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1308782--tim-hortons-customers-pay-it-forward-228-times-in-winnipeg) > [@](#): > > For three full hours and 228 orders, a generous chain of Tim Hortons customers in Winnipeg picked up the tab for the people behind them. ETA: Wow! ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/5 "2013-01-01T04:45:05Z")
Bonne année mes amis! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/6 "2013-01-01T05:00:06Z")
Happy New Year! ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/7 "2013-01-01T05:18:41Z")
Happy Hogmanay. Lang may yer lum reek! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/8 "2013-01-01T06:48:33Z")
> [@](#): > > For three full hours and 228 orders, a generous chain of Tim Hortons customers in Winnipeg picked up the tab for the people behind them. That’s awesome! And I’ll have you know, my lum has never reeked! Happy New Years, everybody! ---
**Author:** ![jools](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b3f665/32.png) [@jools](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jools)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/9 "2013-01-01T09:00:28Z")
Happy New Year a tout le monde. Now I’ll go back to my seat and quitely keep on reading you:) ---
**Author:** ![kbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4491bb/32.png) [@kbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kbear)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/10 "2013-01-01T09:39:12Z")
Maybe my first New Year’s resolution should be to make sure I read this thread and other Canadian news more often. Being so far from home for so long, I 've become lazy about keeping up to date and have really no idea what’s going on back home. Happy New Year! ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/11 "2013-01-01T10:05:15Z")
Happy New Year friends! Hope that 2013 brings you much happiness and prosperity! ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/12 "2013-01-01T17:32:27Z")
Off to a concert by the Musicians in Ordinary this afternoon, in an attempt to start the New Year off right. I hope to be back in time to take the kids and the dog sledding in the park. The weather here in Toronto has been perfect - just cold enough that the Boxing Day snow has stayed, just warm enough that you can comfortably stay out for a few hours. What are some of your New Year’s traditions, y’all? ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/13 "2013-01-01T18:55:29Z")
Last night was fun, went down to Olympic Plaza with Velociraptor then home to put him to bed and back in time for the count down. There were a few protests happening. Idle No More people were in the plaza just off to the side, across the street was the street church guy serving food and warm drinks and had his large signs out bashing the mayor and aldermen. It was a good time though, but I was sadly disappointed in the fireworks, or rather lack thereof. A quick fwoosh off of a nearby building and the tower lit up and that was it. I guess I’m comparing to years past at First Night in Edmonton though, and it has been about 15 years so things change. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/14 "2013-01-01T21:08:09Z")
Hi everyone! I’m still alive, albeit mostly absent these days. I just have less time to sit and read the Dope than I used to (being unemployed had it’s upside, it seems!). Work is busy but mostly fun, except for when clients call me when I’m NOT ON CALL AND BAKING COOKIES. Had cookie dough all over my phone, though otherwise was able to help them get their plane fixed, so that’s good. I’m off to have a New Years Day supper with both my parents and in-laws, which should be fun. They rarely get together and it just worked out well this year. Canada had better win the WJHC! They won the Spengler Cup too, not that anyone cares. I really miss hockey! I’ll try and drop in more often in 2013! Happy new year to you all and have a safe and healthy year! ---
**Author:** ![gregorio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@gregorio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gregorio)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/15 "2013-01-01T21:32:44Z")
I LIKE the Spengler Cup. Seems to be the closest thing to a club championship out there. It’s neat to see the Euro teams with all manner of nationalities. And the crazy uniforms. Nice to see the Canada win, and the level of talent available to all the teams. Happy new year everyone! ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/16 "2013-01-01T23:01:59Z")
I bought something today for $19.91 and handed the clerk a $20 bill. He rang it through properly and the cash register said “Change: 10 cents.” So I guess the official phase-out of the penny has begun. Great! ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/17 "2013-01-01T23:17:07Z")
The coffee shop that I patronize daily started doing that just before Christmas. I guess we’ll see more and more places doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/18 "2013-01-01T23:18:50Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I bought something today for $19.91 and handed the clerk a $20 bill. He rang it through properly and the cash register said “Change: 10 cents.” So I guess the official phase-out of the penny has begun. Great! Now that you mention it, yeah the last couple times I paid in cash I got the rounded amount of change (coffee bill came to 3.42 today, I got 1.60 in change from a five). Usually I pay more attention but I’m a little sleep deprived. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/19 "2013-01-02T02:44:09Z")
[I didn’t want to let this great post die with last year’s thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15848257&postcount=2429) > [@The CanaDoper Café (2012 edition of The great, ongoing Canadian current events and politics thread.)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2012-edition-of-the-great-ongoing-canadian-current-events-and-politics-thread/608014/2430): > > I don’t think the third party administrator would have made a difference anyway, for the immediate problem was that over an extended period the funding dedicated to housing was not sufficient to maintain existing inventory and build new homes. All a third party administrator can do is ensure that dedicated funds are spent for the purposes to which there were designated, and that was already being done by the band. The Band’s financial statements were relatively clean. > > What all this kerfuffle over the third party administrator misses is that there are substantive non-financial issues that must be addressed. > > Can a community of under a couple of thousand people and without any significant private sector employment economically survive in a remote area without massive subsidization far beyond that which would be acceptable in southern communities? If such massive subsidization is necessary, is the government treaty bound to provide it? If not, should it be provided anyway or should the community be left to its own devices to support itself? > > In a community in which a third of the population are minors, what must be done to break the cycle of economic dependency and to reduce the teen pregnancy rate? In a community in which three quarters of the population are under 35, what are those who are healthy and in their prime actually doing each day that is constructive? To what degree has endemic binge drinking and resulting violence crippled the social fabric of the community? With a birth rate of roughly 3.6%, most kids not finishing school, and an unemployment rate somewhere around 87%, can there be anything other than a dismal future, and is in fact the community only struggling along as a breeding ground for future generations facing a similar fate? > > To what degree is the community an artificial construct? It was created about 120 years ago, but did not have any sizable settlement until about 80 years ago, and has struggled with poverty all along. It is not a community that has fallen on hard times. It is a community that was artificially created without due consideration given to its economic survival. > > To what degree should the economic benefits from resource extraction in the region (in Attawapiskat’s case, a De Beer’s mine) be directed to the community? Prior to the creation of the reservation, the people hunted, trapped and fished throughout the region in what is now called traditional territory. By treaty, the Band gave up that traditional territory (while retaining the right to hunt, fish and trap on it) in exchange for the reservation and certain promises of support by the government. In the sense that hunting, trapping and fishing is resource extraction, should the Band be paid on an ongoing basis for the more recent development of mining on what used to be its territory? > > To the extent that money from mining does reach the community (a couple of million directly to the Band, donation of housing, and contractor’s profits and employee wages from about forty million in contracts and wages), how should it be distributed? Should mines be required to give preferential treatment to on-reserve supplier and contractors? Should quotas be established for mines hiring employees, and should job performance requirements be relaxed for Indians? Should individuals be entirely free to spend their income or accumulate assets as they chose (thus there being very nice homes and expensive vehicles in Attawapiskat standing side by side against families crowded into broken, moldy shacks), or should the Indian Act be re-drafted to permit local taxation, be it property tax, income tax, or a combination, so that the well off in a community are required to contribute to the well-being of the community. (Note that income earned off reserve by status Indians is federally and provincially taxable, income earned on reserve by a status Indians is not federally or provincially taxable, the federal portion of HST is not payable on-reserve for status Indians, and in Ontario the provincial portion of HST is waived for all status Indians, but despite all of this, the reserves have no power to tax at all – they have no power the way non-reserve communities do to tax property to support municipalities and to support school boards.) > > To what degree is economic development impinged by the Indian Act formally blocking execution against secured and unsecured debt? Some banks (e.g. RBC) are getting interested in investing on reserves, but they have no way of collecting upon default, unless the debt is guaranteed by the Federal government. Liens and mortgages are essentially meaningless. This throws a bucket of water on sparks of business development, and has led to a “cash on the dash” practice when making transactions with status Indians who live on reserve. > > Even if the federal Government pays off a mortgage that it has guaranteed, the reserve is then held responsible, for although individual Indians can own their own homes, the land the homes are built upon remain owned by the reserve, so the reserve ends up having to pay back the federal Government when the individual band members default on their mortgage payments. Since often bands do not have the funds to pay for such defaults, the government often appoints a third party administrator, which then charges about $150,000 per year to make cuts in the Band’s budget until the guaranteed debt is paid off, which in turn reduces the band’s ability to contribute to its own welfare both while the guaranteed debt is being paid, and in future generations which are saddled with the general debt accumulated while the guaranteed debt was being paid down. > > To what degree does the very small community size lend itself to family control of the band, and thereby family control of the community’s resources? Nepotism is rife on reserves – some more than others. The best way to get a job is to get elected to council or to have relatives on council. The best way to get housing is to get elected to council or to have relatives on the council. When one family is elected, their extended family gets the new jobs and the vacated housing until another family is elected. > > To what degree does the very small community size and remote location preclude any economies of scale? Doctors fly in on an occasional basis (I’m glad to say that my doctor is one of them), but most diagnostics and medical treatment must be done further south (health benefits, including medical, drug and dental are fully covered by the Federal government for status Indians). Post-secondary education requires flying out (primary/elementary and secondary education is funded by the Federal government but most remote reserved do not have high-schools (Attawapiskat’s primary/elementary school was closed due to being built on a large diesel leak and has been conducted out of over-crowed portables for the last dozen years, but it does have a new high school. ), and post-secondary education is subsidized by the Federal government for status Indians). Heavy items (vehicles, prefabricated buildings and bulk supplies including the diesel that powers the generators that provide the light and heat for most of these communities), must the shipped along winter roads that are only open for a few months each year. Anything not planned for the previous year, and all fresh produce, must be flown in. People who live on welfare cannot afford to live when there are no economies of scale and when transportation costs greatly increase the price of basic items, including food and housing. > > In short, is such a community viable? Will the present pattern of the federal government providing enough to keep people from dying, but not enough to thrive, continue while the problem festers and grows? Will a massive and long term allocation of resources solve the problem, or is the very nature of a remote community without employment for its citizens doomed to failure regardless of how much money is given to it? Is a diaspora and a resulting assimilation necessary for the people of remote communities to share in the modern world, and if so, what is to be done given that these communities are absolutely not willing to do this? Conversely, is the rest of Canada willing to open its pockets further to fund remote Indian communities at a first world standard as an extension of the treaty obligations that opened the land to non-aboriginals, regardless of whether or not such funding is effective in defeating the social problems resultant from isolation, or will the rest of Canada simply say “go to school, and move to get a job, just like the rest of us.” > > I wish there was a simple answer, but there is not. The one thing that is clear is that there is grinding poverty on remote reserves, and all the social and health ramifications that goes with it. The first step, in my opinion, is to get the Indian leaders and the Federal government leaders, including Stephen Harper, to communicate fully and freely with each other, and to keep at it without respite for as many years as it takes to move away from what is clearly a profoundly broken system. Let’s make this a national priority, rather than an international embarrassment. I don’t want generational grinding poverty to have a place in my Canada. Good post, **Muffin**. I don’t want generational, grinding poverty to have any place in Canada either, but I have no pat answers. Towns and villages die if they can’t make it, and the people who lived there move on. It would be ridiculous to expect the Federal government to massively subsidize a village that was dying because, for example, the railway that serviced them stopped running there, and I think we’re going to have to face that hard, cold fact with reservations, too - if your reservation can’t survive without massive subsidies, it isn’t going to survive. As someone said earlier in the previous thread, I think the reservation system is well and truly broken. I also think that another thing that has to change is that Natives have to stop blaming Whitey for all their problems. Blaming someone else for all your problems means that you don’t have any power to fix anything; I don’t believe that’s true, and neither does [Chief Clarence Louie.](http://www.naedb-cndea.com/index.php/meet-our-members/chief-clarence-louie/) ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/20 "2013-01-02T04:42:19Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Good post, **Muffin**. I agree, and in light of this paragraph from Muffin’s post… > [@Muffin](#): > > To what degree does the very small community size lend itself to family control of the band, and thereby family control of the community’s resources? Nepotism is rife on reserves – some more than others. The best way to get a job is to get elected to council or to have relatives on council. The best way to get housing is to get elected to council or to have relatives on the council. When one family is elected, their extended family gets the new jobs and the vacated housing until another family is elected. … and this item from the National Post ([Idle No More founders distance themselves from chiefs](http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/01/idle-no-more-founders-distance-themselves-from-chiefs/)), which contains such statements from Idle No More as: > [@](#): > > “From day one we wanted this to be something that was led by everyday people, a horizontal movement,” said [Idle No More organizer Tanya] Kappo, an aboriginal mother and law student. “If this was ever going to really take off, it had to come from the ground up, not the other way around.” … then I wonder what we might see here. If the Aboriginal people themselves are fed up with their leadership, as seems to be what Idle No More is saying (from the linked item, “… the founders of Idle No More made it clear that while they recognize [Attawapiskat Chief Theresa] Spence’s support and sacrifice, the movement is about all of Canada’s aboriginal people, not just its chiefs”), what might we expect? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736.md?page=2)