# The CanaDoper Café, 2013 edition. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 1, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736 "2013-01-01T03:29:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 122
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2421 "2013-10-23T23:02:32Z")
I think you hit the nail on the head. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2422 "2013-10-24T01:14:00Z")
Whereas [Pamela Wallin](http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/10/23/pamela-wallin-tells-her-side-of-senate-expenses-scandal-says-her-expulsion-was-politically-motivated/) is concentrating on blaming Marjory LeBreton and Carolyn Stewart Olsen for vindictively leaking information to the press. > [@](#): > > Wallin said the government’s motions to suspend her, Brazeau and Duffy without pay, before any charges have been laid or verdicts issued, is a violation of their constitutional right to the presumption of innocence. > > “Why is the Senate acting as accuser, judge, jury and executioner before I’ve had that day in court?” > > Wallin answered her own question: “[It’s] designed to appease the party faithful before the Conservative party convention at the end of the month. It is intended to intimidate — not only me but others in this chamber. It is about political expediency, to get rid of someone it considers to be a political liability.” > > She suggested the motions are really aimed at depriving her of any income so that she won’t be able to afford to mount a proper legal challenge. - from the above cited article in the National Post. That’s sounding pretty paranoid, but it’s also sounding like the atmosphere within the Conservative Party is getting quite poisonous! I think it will be a while before we sort all this out. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2423 "2013-10-24T01:41:16Z")
I’m glad that the issue is suspension (they don’t get pay or perks, but can still vote) rather than expulsion (additionally, they can no longer vote), for I would not want to see expulsion used as a political tool to affect votes in the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2424 "2013-10-24T15:57:51Z")
And the RCMP allege that [Mac Harb has committed fraud](http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-allege-former-senator-mac-harb-committed-fraud-1.2187467). ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2425 "2013-10-24T18:18:19Z")
The end of the _Maid of the Mist_’s departures from the Canadian side of the Niagara River: [Maid of the Mist making last voyage from Canada on Thursday](http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/maid-of-the-mist-making-last-voyage-from-canada-on-thursday-1.1511234). True, a boat trip into the Falls will still be operating from the Canadian side (from the link) … > [@](#): > > Tours departing from the Canadian side will [now] be operated by Hornblower, a California-based company. Starting in the spring of 2014, three luxury catamarans will ply the lower Niagara River. … but “luxury catamarans” doesn’t sound to me as if it will be quite the same as the _Maid_. I’ve taken that trip a couple of times, and well remember standing at the front, getting absolutely drenched. Times change, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2426 "2013-10-24T18:32:55Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > He got called into Harper’s office, and with Wright present (just the 3 of us!), was told to pay back the money ($90K) because the optics did not look good, and the conservative base were too stupid to understand the arcane senate rules of residency (ie your primary residence is where you say it is, not where you actually live). This is a preposterous and unnecessary partisan shot. The PMO was concerned about the impression made on ALL potential voters, and quite frankly it has nothing to do with anyone being stupid. People have a sense of what is\* right \*versus _what the rules might technically say_. What Duffy (and Wallin, and Mac Harb) was doing was wrong. It is unethical and greedy to claim expense for money you really aren’t out of pocket just because the rules technically allow you to do so. Furthermore, this is not the first case of senators being perceived as being exceptionally liberal with the taxpayer’s money, so Duffy was a political liability not because Conservatives are stupid, he was a political liability because PEOPLE don’t like having their goddamned money taken from them by entitled, spoiled brats. Even if what Duffy did was legal, it was bullshit. We all know it was bullshit. People don’t like bullshit. The problem here with regards to Harper is threefold; first, did he know about the cheque from Wright (and while I believe he might not have technically known, the “lalalalala I can’t hear you” angle seems very likely), was pressure brought to bear in a manner unbefitting his office, and to what extent were the Senate reports doctored? ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2427 "2013-10-24T18:46:30Z")
Bill C-7 has been declared ‘unconstitutional’ in an opinion issued by the Quebec Court of Appeal, according to [this report](http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/10/24/bill-c-7-senate-reform-unconstitutional_n_4157366.html?utm_hp_ref=canada-politics) from the Huffington Post. > [@](#): > > Now if the Harper government wants to reform the Senate, the court says, it needs to get approval from at least seven provinces holding half the country’s population. The Supreme Court of Canada is to hold hearings on these proposed reforms in mid-November. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2428 "2013-10-24T21:15:02Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > This is a preposterous and unnecessary partisan shot. I’m sorry for those specific words, but I was paraphrasing what Senator Duffy said directly in the Senate a couple of days ago. He made those accusations. The direct quote was "The rules are inexplicable to our base’ ” Duffy said Harper told him. “I was ordered by the prime minister to pay the money back, end of discussion.” So basically, Harper felt that Duffy was within the rules, but that these rules were “inexplicable to our base” > [@RickJay](#): > > Even if what Duffy did was legal, it was bullshit. We all know it was bullshit. People don’t like bullshit. Then Harper should have dealt with it directly and openly, instead of “oh won’t someone (wink wink Nigel) rid me of this problem?” THAT is what is bullshit. The sneaky, $90,000 secret payment that Harper claims to have no knowledge of whatsoever (bats his eyelids coyly) What a crock. > [@RickJay](#): > > The problem here with regards to Harper is threefold; first, did he know about the cheque from Wright (and while I believe he might not have technically known, the “lalalalala I can’t hear you” angle seems very likely), was pressure brought to bear in a manner unbefitting his office, and to what extent were the Senate reports doctored? Exactly. Duffy is a thieving crook, but Harper took it one step further down the road, and flushed any ethics or morals right down the toilet. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2429 "2013-10-24T22:30:25Z")
It’s interesting to see how things are done. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![AHarris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bcef8e/32.png) [@AHarris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHarris)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2430 "2013-10-24T23:13:52Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > Bill C-7 has been declared ‘unconstitutional’ in an opinion issued by the Quebec Court of Appeal, according to [this report](http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/10/24/bill-c-7-senate-reform-unconstitutional_n_4157366.html?utm_hp_ref=canada-politics) from the Huffington Post. > > The Supreme Court of Canada is to hold hearings on these proposed reforms in mid-November. And we need two court cases to find this out? I would have thought that any straight reading of the constitution would tell them that. I think that they are just trying to win votes. ‘We tried to change the senate, but the activist judges said no’. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2431 "2013-10-25T03:27:03Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > I’m glad that the issue is suspension (they don’t get pay or perks, but can still vote) rather than expulsion (additionally, they can no longer vote), for I would not want to see expulsion used as a political tool to affect votes in the Senate. Except if you’re not getting paid, how can you afford to spend all your time in the Senate, carrying out your senatorial duties? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2432 "2013-10-25T03:39:57Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Except if you’re not getting paid, how can you afford to spend all your time in the Senate, carrying out your senatorial duties? Especially if you live in Wadena! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2433 "2013-10-25T08:29:47Z")
Go on welfare. Write articles. Get night job. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2434 "2013-10-25T12:03:58Z")
There’d be something of a Greek tragedy of it were the Senate to bring down Harper: not that I’d personally regard it as one mind you, but for him to be undone by something he so clearly has no time or respect for has a lot of the hallmarks of classic Tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2435 "2013-10-26T01:41:18Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Go on welfare. Write articles. Get night job. In other words, you can’t be a Senator. (If you could be a Senator while working another job, that’s just further evidence the Senate must be done away with.) Suspension is in effect expulsion, it’s just more easily reversed. Nobody who’s suspended is going to hang around long. The funny part about all this hullaballoo is that there is still effectively no evidence, and really not even much reason, to think Stephen Harper’s done anything illegal or even objectively wrong. He told Duffy he was a greedy idiot and to pay back the money… like, seriously, am I supposed to be outraged by that? Why? And yet the entire affair is poisoning the Conservative Party, _simply because they look like a pack of jerks_. With Tories ripping each other on a daily basis the end result is that they all look terrible. It’s just disgusting the electorate. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2436 "2013-10-26T05:20:38Z")
On a different note, [we have two confirmed cases of measles in Lethbridge.](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/lethbridge-measles-outbreak-prompts-vaccine-clinics-1.2190840) Apparently the immunization rates in Lethbridge County are at 61%, well below the 85% required for herd immunity. Yeah, definitely talking to my doctor about any need for booster shots for me and my husband next time I see her. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2437 "2013-10-26T09:01:20Z")
> [@Zombie Whisperer](#): > > On a different note, [we have two confirmed cases of measles in Lethbridge.](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/lethbridge-measles-outbreak-prompts-vaccine-clinics-1.2190840) Apparently the immunization rates in Lethbridge County are at 61%, well below the 85% required for herd immunity. Yeah, definitely talking to my doctor about any need for booster shots for me and my husband next time I see her. Maybe I’m too old to be significant, but to me, measles were just another kid disease (like chicken pox, mumps, etc., all of which I and my friends had). I had measles when I was about four or five years old; I remember about a week of being laid up in bed, and then being well enough that I could go outside and play again. Folks, fight my ignorance here; especially the ignorance of one who survived measles (and mumps, and chicken pox, etc.). Why do measles seem to be the new boogeyman? Note that I am not making light of a measles outbreak, nor am I making light of other “kid diseases.” I’m just wondering why this Lethbridge occurrence is making such news, when (when I was a child) measles were just another disease kids were expected to get. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2438 "2013-10-26T09:45:30Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Folks, fight my ignorance here; especially the ignorance of one who survived measles (and mumps, and chicken pox, etc.). Why do measles seem to be the new boogeyman? Measles used to be “just one of those diseases everyone got” _because_ they had no other choice. It couldn’t be prevented, so you lived with it. But it is very contagious, can have serious complications, and is the most deadly childhood illness that we vaccinate for. From the [CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/overview.html):[ul][li]About one out of 10 children with measles also gets an ear infection, and up to one out of 20 gets pneumonia. About one out of 1,000 gets encephalitis, and one or two out of 1,000 die. [/li][li]While measles is almost gone from the United States, it still kills an estimated 164,000 people each year around the world. Measles can also make a pregnant woman have a miscarriage or give birth prematurely.[/li][li]Measles spreads through the air by breathing, coughing or sneezing. It is so contagious that any child who is exposed to it and is not immune will probably get the disease.[/ul][/li]Why vaccination is [necessary](http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/measles/faqs-dis-vac-risks.htm):[ul][li]In the decade before the measles vaccination program began, an estimated 3–4 million persons in the United States were infected each year, of whom 400–500 died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and another 1,000 developed chronic disability from measles encephalitis. Widespread use of measles vaccine has led to a greater than 99% reduction in measles cases in the United States compared with the pre-vaccine era. [/li][li]It is estimated that in 2006 there were 242,000 measles deaths worldwide—that equals about 663 deaths every day or 27 deaths every hour. [/li][\*]It is true that vaccination has enabled us to reduce measles and most other vaccine-preventable diseases to very low levels in the United States. However, measles is still very common—even epidemic—in other parts of the world. Visitors to our country and unvaccinated U.S. travelers returning from other countries can unknowingly bring (import) measles into the United States. Since the virus is highly contagious, such imported cases can quickly spread, causing outbreaks or epidemics among unvaccinated people and under-vaccinated communities. [/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2439 "2013-10-26T12:50:47Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > There’d be something of a Greek tragedy of it were the Senate to bring down Harper: not that I’d personally regard it as one mind you, but for him to be undone by something he so clearly has no time or respect for has a lot of the hallmarks of classic Tragedy. If all there is to it is being caught lending personal money to a senator who took advantage of the expense claims procedures. I think for people that voted for him in the past it will take a lot more than this. I think a lot of people who voted for the Conservatives in " their opinion" do so because they pick the party they feel that can do the least damage, I’m one of those voters. The optics of the whole thing is bad, don’t get me wrong. But cheap public servants taking advantage expense claims is nothing new. These greedy pigs Duffy and Wallin should know better they spent the better part of their careers covering this sort of thing. I guess Harper is guilty of trying to straighten them out. There’s no doubt the senate at the very least needs some major reform. He’s been one of the major champions of senate reform since they’ve gotten in power but has faced road block after road block, from opposition parties and most recently the Quebec government said,\* no you can’t do that\*. The supreme court is currently dealing with the issue. Based on all that I’ve asked myself if an election was held tomorrow who would I vote for ? It wouldn’t be Trudeau or Mulclair. It’ll take something more egregious for me to at least consider voting anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2440 "2013-10-26T12:53:16Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Maybe I’m too old to be significant, but to me, measles were just another kid disease (like chicken pox, mumps, etc., all of which I and my friends had). I had measles when I was about four or five years old; I remember about a week of being laid up in bed, and then being well enough that I could go outside and play again. I remember being in a car accident. I walked away fine. I guess car accidents are no big deal. Most people walk away from car accidents with no a scratch, so why worry about car accidents? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736.md?page=121) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736.md?page=123)