# The CanaDoper Café, 2013 edition. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 1, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736 "2013-01-01T03:29:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 123
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2441 "2013-10-26T20:26:46Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > \ > The optics of the whole thing is bad, don’t get me wrong. But cheap public servants taking advantage expense claims is nothing new. These greedy pigs Duffy and Wallin should know better they spent the better part of their careers covering this sort of thing. I guess Harper is guilty of trying to straighten them out.\ That’s the part I don’t get, either - I’ve worked in many accounting departments, and there is always someone higher up who approves the expenses. Is there no one who looks at the expenses Senators try to claim and tell them this is okay, this is crap? ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2442 "2013-10-27T12:20:07Z")
I think it’s that the rules are vague, contradictory and out-dated. Mike Duffy claimed in his statement that he consulted someone connected with Deloitte who told him his expenses were legitimate, for example. The fundamental weirdness is that you must be resident in the province that you represent in the Senate. That’s fine for all the Ontario and Québec folks who can live in Ottawa/Hull and fulfill that requirement easily, but for the other 8 provinces and 3 territories, that means a lot of flights and a second residence, justifying some rather large expenses. Then there’s the question of ‘What, exactly, is senate business?’ This is one of my questions particularly for Mike Duffy - how much of his travel was for senate business vs. fundraising for the Conservative party of Canada? (Same question for all of them, regardless of party affiliation, by the way.) In the case of Pamela Wallin, if she’s going to turn her legitimate trips back to Saskatchewan into extended round trips to Toronto, Guelph, Wadena, Toronto/Guelph, Ottawa - I start wondering why she gets to claim the whole trip instead of the price of a return ticket Ottawa to Regina. My impression is that the rules need some clarification and tightening, then some enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2443 "2013-10-27T16:47:15Z")
> [@Zombie Whisperer](#): > > That’s the part I don’t get, either - I’ve worked in many accounting departments, and there is always someone higher up who approves the expenses. Is there no one who looks at the expenses Senators try to claim and tell them this is okay, this is crap? The claim of the senators is just this. The rules were vague. Some of them claim they were given explicit permission to go ahead. Other senators have testified that when they asked about which expenses were valid, they were told “Senate business is whatever you say it is”. Other senators have made similar claims, yet are not being censured. Carolyn Olsen herself us under scrutiny for expense claims. Yet she gets a pass. The rules are not just vague - they are virtually non existent. It is pretty clear that the Conservatives in the Senate have been given marching orders from the PMO to get this swept under the rug before the upcoming Conservative convention in Calgary. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2444 "2013-10-27T16:55:44Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > If all there is to it is being caught lending personal money to a senator who took advantage of the expense claims procedures. I think for people that voted for him in the past it will take a lot more than this. I think a lot of people who voted for the Conservatives in " their opinion" do so because they pick the party they feel that can do the least damage, I’m one of those voters. > > The optics of the whole thing is bad, don’t get me wrong. But cheap public servants taking advantage expense claims is nothing new. These greedy pigs Duffy and Wallin should know better they spent the better part of their careers covering this sort of thing. I guess Harper is guilty of trying to straighten them out. There’s no doubt the senate at the very least needs some major reform. He’s been one of the major champions of senate reform since they’ve gotten in power but has faced road block after road block, from opposition parties and most recently the Quebec government said,\* no you can’t do that\*. The supreme court is currently dealing with the issue. > > First, it was not a loan. This has been made clear by Wright and Duffy themselves. The term “loan” was being floated early on by spin-meisters who were trying to minimize this. You must have bought into this accidentally. > > Secondly, it was a crime. Many have tried to convince others (or themselves) that it was “no big deal”. But the RCMP are investigating it as a crime (Sections 122 and 121 of the criminal code) > > Thirdly, a dozen people knew what was going on - virtually the whole upper echelon of the PMO (except for the coffee boy) For Harper to claim he knew nothing is not remotely believable - then there is the problem that his story keeps changing - "“nothing happened” for the first 5 days, “Wright acted alone” up until last week, and now we’re up to “a few people knew” Willful blindness is not a very effective defense. > > Either Harper knew much more than he’s letting on, or he is the most hands-off PM we’ve seen in 100 years. And not many folks believe the latter. > > Based on all that I’ve asked myself if an election was held tomorrow who would I vote for ? It wouldn’t be Trudeau or Mulclair. It’ll take something more egregious for me to at least consider voting anyone else. Bottom line is: Most everyone I talk to know that Duffy and Wallin are greedy pigs. Trouble is, they were appointed by Harper BECAUSE they were greedy pigs, and could act as greedy pig fundraisers for him last election. I guess Harper thinks he’s eliminated the roadblocks to destroying the Senate; He’s proved they are a pack of unaccountable greedy pigs by appointing a bunch of unaccountable greedy pigs. Brilliant! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2445 "2013-10-28T01:27:52Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The claim of the senators is just this. The rules were vague. Some of them claim they were given explicit permission to go ahead. Other senators have testified that when they asked about which expenses were valid, they were told “Senate business is whatever you say it is”. Other senators have made similar claims, yet are not being censured. Carolyn Olsen herself us under scrutiny for expense claims. Yet she gets a pass. > > The rules are not just vague - they are virtually non existent. > > It is pretty clear that the Conservatives in the Senate have been given marching orders from the PMO to get this swept under the rug before the upcoming Conservative convention in Calgary. In that case, I don’t see the scandal - you can’t condemn people for not following vague/non-existent rules. ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2446 "2013-10-28T05:04:50Z")
> [@Zombie Whisperer](#): > > In that case, I don’t see the scandal - you can’t condemn people for not following vague/non-existent rules. Legally, no. But it sounds like Harper, remembering the sponsorship scandal that launched him into office, wanted to turf these senators before the court of public opinion did him in. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2447 "2013-10-28T05:29:58Z")
Astronaut Chris Hadfield is publishing a book: [An Astronaut’s Guide to Life on Earth](http://canadaam.ctvnews.ca/chris-hadfield-releases-first-book-an-astronaut-s-guide-to-life-on-earth-1.1512894). Apparently, it comes out in a couple of days, and I’m looking forward to reading it. Anybody else? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2448 "2013-10-28T08:25:25Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > Measles used to be… I should add, thank you **Waenara** , for the information! ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2449 "2013-10-28T14:23:46Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Astronaut Chris Hadfield is publishing a book: [An Astronaut’s Guide to Life on Earth](http://canadaam.ctvnews.ca/chris-hadfield-releases-first-book-an-astronaut-s-guide-to-life-on-earth-1.1512894). Apparently, it comes out in a couple of days, and I’m looking forward to reading it. Anybody else? Oh, very much! We owe him a huge debt for showing how cool science is! ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2450 "2013-10-28T14:26:55Z")
A few weeks ago, I looked all over two different bookstores for Chris Hadfield’s book, and then realized it wasn’t out yet. :smack: That’ll teach me to be impatient. I look forward to reading it soon! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2451 "2013-10-29T22:24:15Z")
> [@Zombie Whisperer](#): > > In that case, I don’t see the scandal - you can’t condemn people for not following vague/non-existent rules. Well, the problem for the Conservatives is that the media got ahold of it. And the taxpayers did not like the feeding at the trough that the recently appointed Conservative Senators were doing. (particularly as Harper had made it a point to talk about reforming the Senate, then packed it with greedy pigs) When the shit hit the fan, Harper wanted the problem to go away. He ordered Duffy to pay everything back. Duffy didn’t want to (see: greedy pig). Harper told his COS, Nigel Wright to “Fix it”. Which he did (with Harper maintaining willful blindness), by “giving” Duffy $90K in secret. Duffy “paid it back” Harper said what a great guy he was. Story over. But wait. The $90K payment from Wright to Duffy surfaced. Oh oh. Trouble in the PMO! Harper stood up for Wright. For 5 days, Then lobbed him under the bus. Harper claimed that Wright was the ONLY person who knew. All his fault. Whoops again. This was a bit of an untruth. Almost a dozen people knew, including Harpers lawyer, communications chief, Nigel’s assistant, the Lawyer for the CPC, a couple of Senators, etc. Problem was getting bigger. Harper ordered the senate to get rid of the problem. Toss the bums out. Oh dear though. Duffy, Wallin and Brazeau are not going quietly. Duffy drops the bombshell in the senate that there was a SECOND payment. This one to pay for his legal fees. Paid for by the CPC party funds which are partly taxpayer supported. Harper’s PMO boys say Duffy is lying. Duffy produces the cheque. PMO boys retreat in confusion. PMO boys produce some emails from Duffy to bolster their side. It’s pointed out that in a Freedom of Infomation request last month, the PMO said there were NO emails. Oh oh, they lied. Harper is pissed now. Orders the senate to invoke closure on the bill to hurry things along. This is only done in rare circumstances, not because the PM is being inconvenienced. TLDR: It’s not the initial expenses, it’s the coverup ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2452 "2013-10-29T22:58:05Z")
That really was a euphonious polemic! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2453 "2013-10-30T00:09:10Z")
Yup, that sounds like a good summary of a ridiculous situation. Greedy politicians being greedy, politicians who don’t want the public to know what they’re up to hiding things. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2454 "2013-10-30T19:49:18Z")
**Spoons** - I thought you ought to see this… the ‘[trailer](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPw8C1fID80)’ for “An Astronaut’s Guide to Life on Earth” ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2455 "2013-10-30T21:03:56Z")
> [@Le Monstre de l'au-delà](#): > > **Spoons** - I thought you ought to see this… the ‘[trailer](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPw8C1fID80)’ for “An Astronaut’s Guide to Life on Earth” That was great! Thanks for the link! The book is now out. I’ll have to pick up a copy. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2456 "2013-10-30T21:49:38Z")
I got my copy of Chris Hadfield’s book yesterday morning, and have been reading it, and I’m enjoying it very much! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2457 "2013-10-31T01:15:55Z")
I’m going to have to request that one from the library - I have some supervolcano eruption books by Harry Turtledove to read first though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2458 "2013-10-31T15:55:03Z")
[Alleged Rob Ford crack video recovered by Toronto police: Chief Bill Blair](http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/10/31/rob-ford-crack-video-the-focus-of-investigation-drug-trafficking-search-warrant-documents-say/) The Toronto police have recovered a video which Chief Bill Blair describes as “consistent with what had been previously described in various media reports.” It’s going to be an interesting day… ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2459 "2013-10-31T16:13:49Z")
Hoo boy. Canadian politics sure is anything but boring of late. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2460 "2013-10-31T17:01:25Z")
We’ll see if the Ford video is all it was cracked up to be… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736.md?page=122) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736.md?page=124)