# The CanaDoper Café, 2013 edition. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 1, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736 "2013-01-01T03:29:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 141
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2801 "2013-11-28T14:54:31Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > I would think a flop house would be cheaper to operate, but by all means let the taxpayers spend inordinate amounts of money to mimic Starbucks, schools, daycare, etc. Don’t worry. Ontario taxpayers have an endless supply of money, as we keep seeing at election time. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2802 "2013-11-28T15:42:50Z")
You two are reminding me of Rick Mercer’s [Rob Ford rant](http://www.cbc.ca/player/Shows/Shows/The+Rick+Mercer+Report/ID/2419555498/) - “We would vote for a gerbil if he saved us a dollar!” ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2803 "2013-11-28T18:14:10Z")
I wish the Ontario government would get it’s ass in gear concerning the Ring of Fire. There are quite a few stakeholders, but no one to coordinate everything. particularly regarding a transportation plan, so nothing is happening. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2804 "2013-11-28T18:16:19Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > You two are reminding me of Rick Mercer’s [Rob Ford rant](http://www.cbc.ca/player/Shows/Shows/The+Rick+Mercer+Report/ID/2419555498/) - > > “We would vote for a gerbil if he saved us a dollar!” Well after all, Hammy the Hamster has done quite well as the self-appointed mayor of Hamster Town. Now I realize that a gerbil is not a hamster, but what’s the harm in a little diversity? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2805 "2013-11-28T19:21:23Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > I would think a flop house would be cheaper to operate, but by all means let the taxpayers spend inordinate amounts of money to mimic Starbucks, schools, daycare, etc. A smart city is trying to make self-sufficient communities, ones that people can work and live in without driving long distances - the libraries can be the centres of those communities. I go to my local library every week, and there are always many people in it (and it doesn’t have all the Starbucks amenities). It does have many other things than just books. I think the portion of my taxes that go to pay for libraries are well-spent. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2806 "2013-11-28T19:49:31Z")
My public library (Ft. William) started as a sauna in a railroad roundhouse. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2807 "2013-11-29T00:45:26Z")
I went to the library again today, and it was once again full of quite a variety of people. I noticed that they have added a new coffee machine to it, so maybe it is getting more like Starbucks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2808 "2013-11-29T01:05:12Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Nicer topics not involving Mr. Ford: > > I’m likely to find myself in Calgary over Christmas, and possibly New Year’s. Any chance we can organize a Calgary Dopefest at that time? (Non-Calgary/Albertan Dopers who find themselves in Calgary would, of course, be more than welcome.) > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Sounds good! Any Edmontonians considering heading down for this? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2809 "2013-11-29T03:11:53Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > That drives me out of my frigging tree - all these citizens who seriously want more services and to pay lower taxes. I guess they’ve listened to too many politicians making impossible promises and they think that they actually can get more services with lower taxes. I’ve never met any of these people. Most everyone I have met, when it comes to municipal government, just wants the city to run the services it DOES run with some degree of reliability and competence. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2810 "2013-11-29T03:19:16Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I went to the library again today, and it was once again full of quite a variety of people. I noticed that they have added a new coffee machine to it, so maybe it is getting more like Starbucks. 🙂 Coffee machine? Heck, my local public library has a real cafe in it: coffee, tea, soft drinks, baked goodies, etc. It’s run by one of the local independent coffee shops, and it’s pretty good. Best of all, unlike Starbucks at Chapters, you don’t have to check your items out first. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2811 "2013-11-29T03:20:28Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > My public library (Ft. William) started as a sauna in a railroad roundhouse. Does it have a shelf of currently-popular books? Maybe it should call that, “Hot Reads.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2812 "2013-11-29T04:17:48Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’ve never met any of these people. Most everyone I have met, when it comes to municipal government, just wants the city to run the services it DOES run with some degree of reliability and competence. I guess Burlingtoners are more realistic than Calgarians. Every poll and election confirms to me that the idiots I live amongst very much want more services for less money. ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2813 "2013-11-29T04:28:23Z")
If I want coffee at the library I have to bring it myself. There’s… two libraries I can think of with a coffee shop attached (chains) and both are the central library for Edmonton and Calgary library systems. I also think they frown at kicking off shoes and chillaxing with your feet on the furniture like at home, at least that’s my experience when I go study. Love my library, I use the resources all the time… including the books. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2814 "2013-11-29T04:50:10Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I guess Burlingtoners are more realistic than Calgarians. Every poll and election confirms to me that the idiots I live amongst very much want more services for less money. As one who has lived in Ontario and Alberta, I’d say you’re right. Problem is, that Albertans don’t seem to understand that what is covered by municipal taxes in Ontario is a lot more than what is covered by taxes in Alberta. Albertans do indeed get comparatively less than Ontarians for their municipal taxes, but here’s the thing: Albertans want it that way. Curbside recycling? Bare-pavement policy after winter storms on all roads? Completely free public libraries to residents? Ontarians enjoy them. Albertans say they would too, but they scream loudly on the Letters page of the Calgary Herald, Edmonton Journal, and other Alberta papers, when they’re told that such things would increase their taxes. The reason why Toronto/GTA homeowners pay more in municipal taxes than a Calgarian does for a comparable home, is because the Torontonian/GTAer gets more for his or her money. It seems to me that if Calgary (for example) wants municipal services on a level comparable to Toronto (or for that matter, Burlington, Stouffville, or Barrie), then Calgarians will have to bite the bullet and agree to pay for them through taxes. Indeed, all Albertans who want the same will have to. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2815 "2013-11-29T06:02:05Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > As one who has lived in Ontario and Alberta, I’d say you’re right. > > Problem is, that Albertans don’t seem to understand that what is covered by municipal taxes in Ontario is a lot more than what is covered by taxes in Alberta. Albertans do indeed get comparatively less than Ontarians for their municipal taxes, but here’s the thing: Albertans want it that way. Curbside recycling? Bare-pavement policy after winter storms on all roads? Completely free public libraries to residents? Ontarians enjoy them. Albertans say they would too, but they scream loudly on the Letters page of the Calgary Herald, Edmonton Journal, and other Alberta papers, when they’re told that such things would increase their taxes. > > The reason why Toronto/GTA homeowners pay more in municipal taxes than a Calgarian does for a comparable home, is because the Torontonian/GTAer gets more for his or her money. It seems to me that if Calgary (for example) wants municipal services on a level comparable to Toronto (or for that matter, Burlington, Stouffville, or Barrie), then Calgarians will have to bite the bullet and agree to pay for them through taxes. Indeed, all Albertans who want the same will have to. I would agree with all of that. I’m not sure why Albertans are so out of touch when it comes to the equation of services and taxes. I think the education about this is almost completely absent here, and like I said earlier, all people really get is the bullshit promises from politicians on the campaign trail. We just saw that with our mayoral election here - a big campaign item was the “Nenshi has hiked property taxes 30% in three years.” Doing some research, I think I understand why Calgarians are so ill-informed - [this article is a great example of the confusion about tax rates and increases.](http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/Mayor+Nenshi+explains+math/8960417/story.html) The bottom line for me after reading that article is that I don’t understand how much my taxes have gone up, but I still know that Calgarians pay one of the lowest tax rates in the country, and we still have what I consider to be an acceptable level of services. Other people get very hung up on “OH MY GOD! My taxes went up 30%!” ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2816 "2013-11-29T07:05:16Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > We just saw that with our mayoral election here - a big campaign item was the “Nenshi has hiked property taxes 30% in three years.” Doing some research, I think I understand why Calgarians are so ill-informed… “Ill-informed” doesn’t begin to describe it. Have a look at what I enjoyed as a Toronto/GTA resident, and compare it to what you know in Calgary: Free library cards. I never paid for a library card in Toronto. As long as I could prove residency (my driver’s license worked), I had a library card at no additional charge, good for three years. (Unlike Alberta, where “library membership” is good for one year, and costs $15 a year out-of-pocket.) Curbside recycling. Torontonians have had curbside newspaper pickup since the 1970s; this was expanded in the 1980s to include bottles and cans (no bottle depots in Ontario–thus no “bottle-grubbers” digging through your trash). I know that Calgary has it now; it did not when I lived there. Here in Lethbridge, it remains a hot topic, worthy of debate. Bare-pavement policies. Sure, Toronto is shut down by snow on Monday, but on Tuesday, you can get to work, if you can get to a main street or highway. On Wednesday, your residential street is plowed; thus, you have no excuse not to get to work. Didn’t Calgary lose a number of houses to fire a few years ago because fire trucks could not get through the snow, because it had not been plowed, since plowing residential streets is not city policy? I’d suggest that such a policy should not hold in a major city like Calgary (population 1,000,000). It sure didn’t hold in the village proper of Stouffville, Ontario (population 8500, when I lived there). All streets in Stouffville proper (as I said, with a tax base of 8500 people) were plowed within 24 hours. That’s just the start. As I’ve said before, Albertans pay “user fees” for what is covered by taxes in Ontario. I pay a monthly “sewerage charge” user fee and a monthly “garbage pickup,” user fee, for example. I never paid these in Ontario; these were included in my annual taxes. Sure my annual municipal taxes are lower than for a comparable Ontario property–but in Ontario, I did not have to pay monthly for the privilege of flushing the toilet or putting the trash out. Albertans should give their heads a shake, and realize that what they want at no additional charge is what people in other provinces take for granted, and happily pay for through taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2817 "2013-11-29T14:50:41Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Free library cards. I never paid for a library card in Toronto. As long as I could prove residency (my driver’s license worked), I had a library card at no additional charge, good for three years. (Unlike Alberta, where “library membership” is good for one year, and costs $15 a year out-of-pocket.) **At the moment** , Edmonton library cards are free. However, that is temporary. [https://www.epl.ca/services/library-card](https://www.epl.ca/services/library-card) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Doom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Dr\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Doom)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2818 "2013-11-29T15:07:59Z")
I am sort of surprised to not see anything on the 2 likely fora of the **SDMB** pertaining to the largest television deal in Canadian history, NHL history, and one of the largest business deals in Canadian history. Hopefully **Sportsnet** doesn’t do anything completely ridiculous to begin their reign, like\*\* TSN\*\* having skits of **James Duthie** stalking **Matthew Barnaby** (in the shower!), or _puppets_. Apparently _Hockey Night in Canada_ was going to throw in the towel altogether, due to the NHL’s asking price on the next round of airing rights, but\*\* Rogers\*\* has partnered/taken control of _HNIC_ broadcasts for 4 years. After that, who knows? No more **CBC** hockey? ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2819 "2013-11-29T17:34:25Z")
I completely missed these 2011 changes to the guidelines for Ministerial accountability. According to [this article](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/tories-2011-guidelines-wouldnt-make-pm-accountable-for-wrights-actions/article15643130/) in the Globe and Mail, > [@](#): > > “Ministerial accountability to Parliament does not mean that a minister is presumed to have knowledge of every matter that occurs within his or her department or portfolio, nor that the minister is necessarily required to accept blame for every matter.” So all that stuff Stephen Harper said back in the AdScam days about how Paul Martin has to accept direct responsibility for the actions of the people under him no longer applies to Mr. Harper? ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/2820 "2013-11-29T17:35:51Z")
> [@Dr\_Doom](#): > > After that, who knows? No more **CBC** hockey? We’ll be very lucky if there’s a CBC at all in a few years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736.md?page=140) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736.md?page=142)