# The CanaDoper Café, 2013 edition. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 1, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736 "2013-01-01T03:29:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/61 "2013-01-07T14:17:39Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Not much. Should have just called the season over, and negotiated for next year. As it is, I’m picturing the Stanley Cup playoffs in August, when I’m more interested in other sports. Well, I don’t think August will happen, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they go till the very end of June this year. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/62 "2013-01-07T16:47:59Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > What is his perspective? It’s actually more that he doesn’t agree with my perspective while having no solution of his own. These remote communities are not sustainable. They need to be eliminated and those living on reserves need to be compensated to move to non-reserve settlements (read: white cities and towns) by providing them with housing and education to become employed and self-sufficient. It makes no sense for them to be their own nation if they cannot sustain themselves. I get it, we took the good land and now they cannot live their traditional way of life. That’s just the way it is. For 200 years, my family were fishermen in Newfoundland. Guess what? That was unsustainable and was a hard life. Now, almost all of us have moved west (for us that means to Ontario) so we could find work. We abandoned our traditional ways in order to be able to live in a more modern society. Unless we plan to give up the good land and repopulate the area with game, etc., the indians are never going to be able to live their traditional way of life. They can practice their religion, etc but they must integrate with Canadian culture at large. Flushing money continuously into a system that does not work, especially when many Canadian governments are already in fiscal crisis just does not make sense. Yeah, I have no heart. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/63 "2013-01-07T17:23:18Z")
[This just in.](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/attawapiskat-audit-raises-questions-about-millions-in-spending-reports/article6995751/) > [@](#): > > The Northern Ontario first nation which declared a state of emergency over deplorable housing and whose chief is now on a hunger strike has not properly accounted for millions of dollars of spending, according to an audit that has been obtained by Canadian media. > [@](#): > > According to the broadcaster, a September letter from the auditor to Ms. Spence says that more than 400 of 505 transactions reviewed lacked proper documentation. > [@](#): > > The CBC says Deloitte could not conclude that the payments made by the band council were in accordance with the terms and conditions of funding agreements with the federal government. Quelle surprise! ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Doom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Dr\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/64 "2013-01-07T17:51:27Z")
An awful lot is being made of this audit leak. Many (on Twitter) accuse the Federal Government of misdirection tactics, and believe that the PM is being underhanded and unfair. **Idle No More** supporters and participants alike apparently choose to ignore what _really fucking stinks_: Over a 6-year period, a community of ~2000 ([according to Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attawapiskat_First_Nation)), [spent over **ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS**](http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/07/pol-attawapiskat-audit-monday.html), cannot prove where the hell it went, and are currently _crying poor_?! And this is\* ONLY ONE\* of the countless “nations” at which gobs of money have been hurled for many years. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/65 "2013-01-07T18:54:20Z")
$100M over 6 years for 2000 people is $8300/person/year. While I wouldn’t object to receiving $8300/yr in excess of my wage, I wouldn’t think of that as gobs of money. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/66 "2013-01-07T19:03:29Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > $100M over 6 years for 2000 people is $8300/person/year. While I wouldn’t object to receiving $8300/yr in excess of my wage, I wouldn’t think of that as gobs of money. We probably all did the math on this one, and no one would argue it’s gobs of money, but there is a lack of documentation on what it was actually spent on. If you’re a family of four that’s $33K a year. The money was supposed to be for housing, sewage, education and other services, but there’s no traceability. How much went into the pockets of the Chief and council while the people didn’t receive any benefits, that’s the question being asked, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/67 "2013-01-07T19:32:36Z")
We were just watching the CTV News at lunch, and Gregory Thomas of the Canadian Taxpayer’s Federation was talking about how Theresa Spence has a six-figure salary, and investments worth over nine million dollars. No, the math really _isn’t_ adding up. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/68 "2013-01-07T19:58:08Z")
I’m glad that is sort of stuff is getting out to the public, not because it makes First Nations look bad, but because illuminates a very significant part of the puzzle that all of us – First People and the ROC – must figure out if we are to mitigate the remote reserve poverty problem, for the problem is far greater than just insufficient funding. Here’s what stood out to me when I looked at Chief Spence’s reserve’s financial statements a year ago (you can look at them on the band’s website): > [@Attawapiskat - Solutions?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attawapiskat-solutions/605344/77): > > In Attawapiskat, $2,031,007 is allocated to the housing program, of which $60,512 actually goes to housing program delivery, while $403,342 is spent on administration and $1,374,128 is spent on wages and employee benefits. Why does only 3% of the housing program go to housing program delivery? [http://www.attawapiskat.org/wp-content/uploads/2011-Non-Consolidated-Schedule-of-Programs.pdf](http://www.attawapiskat.org/wp-content/uploads/2011-Non-Consolidated-Schedule-of-Programs.pdf) > > In Attawapiskat, $607,364 is allocated to the Chief and Band Councillors, not including travel. In Manitouwadge, an economically struggling non-native northern Ontario bush town that is a few hundred people larger than Attawapiskat, $94,200 is allocated to the Mayor and Town Council, including the election costs. Why are the Attawapiskat Chief and Council costs six and a half times higher than those of a comparable non-reserve community? [http://www.attawapiskat.org/wp-content/uploads/2011-Consolidated-Schedule-of-Salaries-Honouraria-and-Travel-Expenditures.pdf](http://www.attawapiskat.org/wp-content/uploads/2011-Consolidated-Schedule-of-Salaries-Honouraria-and-Travel-Expenditures.pdf)[http://www.manitouwadge.ca/uploads/documents/By%20Laws/2011%20Budget.pdf](http://www.manitouwadge.ca/uploads/documents/By%20Laws/2011%20Budget.pdf) > > How did a temporary band manager run up a transportation tab of $68,397 in only two months? [http://www.attawapiskat.org/wp-content/uploads/2011-Consolidated-Schedule-of-Salaries-Honouraria-and-Travel-Expenditures.pdf](http://www.attawapiskat.org/wp-content/uploads/2011-Consolidated-Schedule-of-Salaries-Honouraria-and-Travel-Expenditures.pdf) > > Why is a band co-manager the spouse of the Chief? [http://www.attawapiskat.org/wp-content/uploads/20111205NoticeQuestionsAboutAttawapiskat.pdf](http://www.attawapiskat.org/wp-content/uploads/20111205NoticeQuestionsAboutAttawapiskat.pdf) > > Why does Attawapiskat not even have a budget, despite INAC (the Federal government agency that provides Attawapiskat with most of its funds) requiring it? [http://www.attawapiskat.org/wp-content/uploads/2011-Management-Letter.pdf](http://www.attawapiskat.org/wp-content/uploads/2011-Management-Letter.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/69 "2013-01-07T20:13:32Z")
Good questions, **Muffin**. I watched the CTV noon news today, and the media were interviewing some sort of spokesman for Attawapiskat and Chief Spence. When he was hit with questions about the audit, the best he could come up with was that it was somehow the federal government’s fault. When it was pointed out to him that Deloitte (which performed the audit) was a private firm, and not governmental, he wasn’t sure what to say. And it seems that a CBC report from a year ago has resurfaced. It is an interesting look at the state of affairs in Attawapiskat: empty houses while people live in shacks, the Chief and her co-manager partner seeing nothing wrong with the place, while another man says that he plans to move his family away, as there is no hope there. See the CBC news report [here](http://eyecrazy.blogspot.ca/2013/01/the-cbc-exposes-chief-spences.html). ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/70 "2013-01-07T20:14:05Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > I’m glad that is sort of stuff is getting out to the public, not because it makes First Nations look bad, but because illuminates a very significant part of the puzzle that all of us – First People and the ROC – must figure out if we are to mitigate the remote reserve poverty problem, for the problem is far greater than just insufficient funding.\ Thanks for that, **Muffin** - you’ve put into words what I’m thinking and can’t find the words for. I don’t want Natives to live in poverty, but I don’t think the solution is to throw more money at the reservation system. I don’t know what the hell the solution is. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/71 "2013-01-08T01:20:28Z")
And in other news, Theresa Spence is no longer talking to the media because they aren’t reporting the story right. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/72 "2013-01-08T01:29:18Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > And in other news, Theresa Spence is no longer talking to the media because they aren’t reporting the story right. Ha ha! Idol no more. ETA: Damned. I should get a job writing newspaper headlines! I made myself laugh on this one. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/73 "2013-01-08T01:29:54Z")
A further problem is that some of these bands councils are filled with people (and drawn from a populations) unfamiliar with or incapable of dealing with detailed financial management. An interim solution might simply be allocating the reserve funding to the individuals and then have the council impose taxes on residents. It would definitively clarify funding allocations and few things get people to pay attention like taxing them. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/74 "2013-01-08T03:36:55Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > ETA: Damned. I should get a job writing newspaper headlines! I made myself laugh on this one. 😃 If I see it as a headline tomorrow, I’ll know where it came from. Good one! ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/75 "2013-01-08T03:46:19Z")
Just checked but nothing yet **Leaffan**. 🙂 But an amazing number of people can’t spell idle. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/76 "2013-01-09T06:21:13Z")
[Media no longer welcome in Attawapiskat at all.](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/global-tv-crew-kicked-out-of-attawapiskat/article7064254/) Gee, that doesn’t look guilty _at all_. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/77 "2013-01-09T06:51:32Z")
From **Cat Whisperer** ’s link: > [@](#): > > A team from Global News in Toronto was given their marching orders on Tuesday by Acting Chief Christine Kataquapit… > > Ms. Kataquapit apparently called the police who told the news crew they would be arrested for trespassing and breaching peace if they didn’t leave. The reporters were then escorted to the airport. > > “A community member said, as we were waiting for the police to arrive, that he was shocked that this was going on,” Ms. Tryon told Ms. Friesen. “Prior to this happening, we had gotten a welcome response from the community. They were eager to talk about what the audit was really about – how it wasn’t showing the full picture of what was happening in Attawapiksat.” Do we hear from too many Chiefs, and not enough Indians? ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/78 "2013-01-09T14:29:06Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Idol no more. When my sister-in-law told me she saw an Idle No More protest, I actually thought it was people complaining about Canadian Idol for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Soylent\_Juicy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Soylent\_Juicy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Juicy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/79 "2013-01-09T14:38:20Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > When my sister-in-law told me she saw an Idle No More protest, I actually thought it was people complaining about Canadian Idol for some reason. I thought it was something about not idling your car - greenhouse gases & stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/80 "2013-01-09T16:23:01Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > From **Cat Whisperer** ’s link: > > Do we hear from too many Chiefs, and not enough Indians? For a reservation that is having problems because apparently the chiefs are taking all the money and doing nothing for the people, they don’t seem to realize how the optics of not letting any band members talk to the media are looking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736.md?page=5)