# The CanaDoper Café, 2013 edition. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 1, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736 "2013-01-01T03:29:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/121 "2013-01-13T10:24:04Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > (Where’d I put my “Crime of the Century” 8 track?) Supertramp? When Queen had released “A Day at the Races” and “A Night at the Opera”? And Meatloaf had released “Bat out of Hell”? I remember cruising Yonge Street with the latter blasting from my buddy’s 1975 Ford Torino. Good times… ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/122 "2013-01-13T11:33:13Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Certain Native Chiefs (among them, Theresa Spence) have demanded a meeting with Governor-General David Johnston. Their claim seems to rest upon, “we negotiated treaties with the British Crown, so the British Crown (represented by the GG) should be present.” > > But as the UK ceded power to Canada through the Treaty of Westminster, and the Canada Act, should the PM be the person with whom the Natives speak? > > Wondering what your feelings are, in this Constitutional muddle. The Attawapiskat Band of Cree signed its treaty with the Government of Canada in right of the Crown in 1930. The Statute of Westminster (which terminated the UK’s Parliament’s ability to make laws applicable to Canada) is irrelevant, notwithstanding it being made the following year. As a constitutional democracy, the Government acts with the authority of the Crown, and the Crown acts on the advice of the Government, with the exception of when there is a constitutional crisis (for example, if there is a reasonable question as to which party holds the confidence of the House). The Queen’s personal representative is not necessary during the negotiating of treaties. There is nothing in law to prevent the GG from being present in treaty negotiations, however, I submit that it would not be constitutionally appropriate, for it would put at risk the independence of the democratically elected Government if the GG were to participate in negotiations rather than to simply act on the advice of the Government following completion of negotiations by the Government. The needs and concerns facing aboriginal people in Canada are all too real, and must be addressed, however, I am not inclined to give serious weight to opinions on constitutional and international law and procedure made by Ms. Spence. In short, I wish her well on her detox diet, but I do not perceive her as having the training, knowledge or experience in law of a Ghandi, and I take her opinions on constitutional legal procedure with a grain of salt in a bowl of fish broth. ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/123 "2013-01-13T15:30:35Z")
Oh snap! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/124 "2013-01-13T16:35:42Z")
I agree with **Muffin**. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/125 "2013-01-13T16:59:46Z")
**To the Ice-Cave, Canadopers!** **Leo Bloom** , posting from Texas, if I recall correctly, is asking a GQ about [when exposed skin and eyes freeze](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=678827). Seems like the sort of thing we have some collective expertise int. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/126 "2013-01-13T17:02:49Z")
The nails-on-a-blackboard voice of a certain grade nine math teacher had that effect on me. ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/127 "2013-01-13T17:48:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Leaffan > > I don’t understand the nuances of our graduated system in Ontario, but will be plunged into it in less than a year. (gulp!) It’s not actually all that complicated. First you take a written test to get a G1. You need to drive with somebody with at least 4 years with a G license, can’t drive on a 400 highway or between 12 and 5 AM and need to have 0 BAC level. Then, after a year (8 months if you took driving school) you can get a G2 if you pass a road test. You can drive by yourself, but not with other people under 20 (though they let you get away with it if you’re DDing). Then after a year you take another driving test and you can get your G. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/128 "2013-01-13T17:52:39Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Do we? > > It’s an honest question. When I learned to drive, we attended in-class seminars (yes, I did actually see “Alice Through the Windshield Glass” and “The Adventures of Larry Leadfoot,” both starring Troy McClure :)), followed by practical training on the road. And when we passed the test and got our license, we were good for all intents and purposes. Age 16 and driving your drunken friends home at 3:00 a.m.? Go for it! > > But now, as I understand things, graduated licensing prevents that. I’m unsure of the details (let’s face it, I don’t really need to know them); but from what I can see, the training is the same, though what you can do at age 16 with what you get, is vastly different. Is the training deficient, or does the graduated licensing make up for it? It is a good question; researching what it takes to become a licensed driver in Alberta, I see nothing that can’t be circumvented by someone who doesn’t want to learn to drive well. You take a written test (in the language of your choice, not limited to English or French), then you take a road test administered by an examiner working out of a registry agency, then you have a two year probationary period as a licensed driver with restrictions, then, if the driver chooses to, they can take an advanced driving test and become an unrestricted driver. The driver can also choose to remain a restricted driver indefinitely. The restrictions are not great - most people could live comfortably with them. It is possible for a driver to become a licensed driver in Alberta without taking any good training; you pass an easy written exam (that you don’t need to bother learning English for), then you go to the registry location run by your brother-in-law, and bingo bango, you’re a licensed driver, without needing to prove that you have any skills. We see it every year on “Canada’s Worst Driver” - every year there are drivers who readily admit that they received their licenses by batting their eyes at the driving examiner, etc. This last season was one of the worst; the two finalists (and co-winners) were both people who had driving skills similar to someone who was behind the wheel for the first time. They are both legally licensed Canadian drivers. Then there’s the issue of re-testing; most of us here took our road test years, if not decades, ago. We fully expect to drive until we are quite old without ever being checked on our road skills again. If you took your road test in a small town, you’re still legally licensed to drive in Toronto, Vancouver, or Calgary (not to mention all the cities in the US, as well). How many sloppy habits have you developed? I’ve got my share. How many things have you never learned in the first place? How many people who took a road test in rural Saskatchewan know how to merge onto the 401? The government and citizens of Canada seem quite content with driving being as dangerous as it is, with the focus on improving the safety of cars, but not the drivers. And now, I return you to your regularly-scheduled thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/129 "2013-01-13T18:10:06Z")
I’m very glad that the licensing requirements for new drivers have been tightened up through grauduated licensing – kids and cars are often a bad mix. In addition to that, I’d like to see much more severe penalties imposed against and drunkards and excessive speeding – essentially get them off the road for an extended period (years) the first time, off the road permanently the second time, and jailed if there is personal injury or driving while under suspension – but I don’t see society being amenable to this. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/130 "2013-01-13T18:36:19Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > How many people who took a road test in rural Saskatchewan know how to merge onto the 401? And how many people who commute on the QEW or 401 know how to pass on a road with oncoming traffic? Fuckers – they have no clue as to the combined speed of vehicles heaading toward each other. And I won’t start on about truckers from southern Ontario trying to drive the North Shore of Superior in the winter. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/131 "2013-01-13T20:08:22Z")
When I was learning to drive (I won’t say how long ago - but long :D), driving instruction included exactly nothing about highway driving - my teacher resolutely refused to go on a highway with me. “I value my life too much to take student drivers on the highway” or something like that, said he. So I learned as everyone else did then - by the tried and tested do-or-die method, on my lonesome. Even at the time, I thought this lacked somewhat in sense. I survived it, but I don’t recomment it to others. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/132 "2013-01-13T21:00:35Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > The Attawapiskat Band of Cree signed its treaty with the Government of Canada in right of the Crown in 1930… **Muffin** , many thanks for the clear explanation. > [@](#): > > … and I take her opinions on constitutional legal procedure with a grain of salt in a bowl of fish broth. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/133 "2013-01-13T21:01:36Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > And I won’t start on about truckers from southern Ontario trying to drive the North Shore of Superior in the winter. Heck, that road is difficult enough in summer! ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/134 "2013-01-13T21:55:11Z")
> [@keeganst94](#): > > It’s not actually all that complicated. First you take a written test to get a G1. You need to drive with somebody with at least 4 years with a G license, can’t drive on a 400 highway or between 12 and 5 AM and need to have 0 BAC level. > > Then, after a year (8 months if you took driving school) you can get a G2 if you pass a road test. You can drive by yourself, but not with other people under 20 (though they let you get away with it if you’re DDing). It’s kind of bizarre to me that the first time you’re allowed to learn to drive on a freeway is also the first time you’re allowed to drive alone. ---
**Author:** ![AHarris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bcef8e/32.png) [@AHarris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHarris)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/135 "2013-01-13T22:42:22Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > It’s kind of bizarre to me that the first time you’re allowed to learn to drive on a freeway is also the first time you’re allowed to drive alone. The drive on the freeway prohibition is only in effect from midnight to 5am. In BC you’re not allowed to drive at all in that time period if you have a learners permit. ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/136 "2013-01-13T22:59:42Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > It is a good question; researching what it takes to become a licensed driver in Alberta, I see nothing that can’t be circumvented by someone who doesn’t want to learn to drive well. You take a written test (in the language of your choice, not limited to English or French), then you take a road test administered by an examiner working out of a registry agency, then you have a two year probationary period as a licensed driver with restrictions, then, if the driver chooses to, they can take an advanced driving test and become an unrestricted driver. The driver can also choose to remain a restricted driver indefinitely. The restrictions are not great - most people could live comfortably with them. > > It is possible for a driver to become a licensed driver in Alberta without taking any good training; you pass an easy written exam (that you don’t need to bother learning English for), then you go to the registry location run by your brother-in-law, and bingo bango, you’re a licensed driver, without needing to prove that you have any skills. We see it every year on “Canada’s Worst Driver” - every year there are drivers who readily admit that they received their licenses by batting their eyes at the driving examiner, etc. This last season was one of the worst; the two finalists (and co-winners) were both people who had driving skills similar to someone who was behind the wheel for the first time. They are both legally licensed Canadian drivers. > > Then there’s the issue of re-testing; most of us here took our road test years, if not decades, ago. We fully expect to drive until we are quite old without ever being checked on our road skills again. If you took your road test in a small town, you’re still legally licensed to drive in Toronto, Vancouver, or Calgary (not to mention all the cities in the US, as well). How many sloppy habits have you developed? I’ve got my share. How many things have you never learned in the first place? How many people who took a road test in rural Saskatchewan know how to merge onto the 401? The government and citizens of Canada seem quite content with driving being as dangerous as it is, with the focus on improving the safety of cars, but not the drivers. > > And now, I return you to your regularly-scheduled thread. 🙂 As someone who recently went through the levels (I got my license almost five years ago and took the second test to get the GDL off it almost three years ago) it boggles my mind that you can go forever on GDL. Doesn’t that defeat the whole purpose of the GDL? That is, testing you again to make sure you have not learned any egregiously bad habits in the last two years? The restrictions that I remember offhand is not even one glass of something with supper and you must have seatbelts for all passengers in the vehicle. I thought that was a law in general, but as Sweetie explained it if you are over 16 and not belted in you get the fine, if the driver is on GDL and their passengers are not belted in they get the fine. Of my friends who got their licenses around the same time, I am the only one who bothered to remove the GDL and that was because I didn’t want to run into issues when travelling. I heard or read somewhere that if you still have that on the license, in more regulated provinces it makes it harder (read impossible) to rent a car. I could be wrong, but since I was travelling with my family and the only driver I didn’t want to be stuck. The first time I went on the Deerfoot was freaky. I’m a lot more comfy than I was but man I must’ve pissed off a few people the first few times (though I did stick to the ‘slow’ lanes..) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/137 "2013-01-13T23:09:50Z")
> [@AHarris](#): > > The drive on the freeway prohibition is only in effect from midnight to 5am. In BC you’re not allowed to drive at all in that time period if you have a learners permit. [This page](https://www.ontario.ca/driving-and-roads/get-g-drivers-licence-new-drivers) makes it sound like it’s in effect all the time: > [@](#): > > By law, when you have a G1 licence, you must… **Not** drive on 400-series highways or high-speed expressways (e.g., 401, Queen Elizabeth Way (QEW), Gardiner Expressway) But it also says that you can drive on any road with a certified instructor. ---
**Author:** ![AHarris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bcef8e/32.png) [@AHarris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHarris)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/138 "2013-01-13T23:33:55Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > [This page](https://www.ontario.ca/driving-and-roads/get-g-drivers-licence-new-drivers) makes it sound like it’s in effect all the time: You appear to be right. I missed the ‘or’ in the first poster’s post. That is pretty silly imho. ---
**Author:** ![Soylent\_Juicy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Soylent\_Juicy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Juicy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/139 "2013-01-14T19:59:31Z")
How long has Chief Theresa Spence been on her “hunger strike”? I don’t know about you guys, but I once had the stomach flu and couldn’t eat anything more solid than ginger ale and water and I lost a pound a day and looked like hell. She looks perfectly fine and healthy. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/140 "2013-01-15T01:36:32Z")
> [@Soylent\_Juicy](#): > > How long has Chief Theresa Spence been on her “hunger strike”? I don’t know about you guys, but I once had the stomach flu and couldn’t eat anything more solid than ginger ale and water and I lost a pound a day and looked like hell. She looks perfectly fine and healthy. She’s drinking fish broth daily. She’s taking vitamins. She retires to a hotel overnight. I’m pretty sure she’s ordering room service, or smuggling doughnuts in or something. It’s farcical. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736.md?page=8)