# The CanaDoper Café, 2013 edition. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 1, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736 "2013-01-01T03:29:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 94
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1861 "2013-07-31T04:37:57Z")
You know, I’ve spent a couple of days thinking about this now, and doing a bit of research (on top of what I’ve done in the past), and I’ve come to the conclusion that there is no external fix for the problems Aboriginal people are having in Canada - the laws and treaties and public perceptions simply won’t allow any real solutions to be enacted. The solutions have to come from the people themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1862 "2013-08-01T03:07:19Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Bolding is mine > Basically we (the royal we) fucked them over as soon as we (the royal we) could. Yes. Was there an expectation of anything less? > [@](#): > > That at least suggests that legally and morally we (the royal we) owe them. It does? Is this some sort of Christian thing where I’m responsible for the sins of the father or some other bullshit? I don’t feel guilty about what a bunch of dead guys did to each other years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1863 "2013-08-01T04:30:32Z")
No, not really. More of a collective responsibility due to the government in question being an extension of the public will. Since the government, public and country in question have persisted through the time in question, then the government, public and country are accountable. Or are you planning on having the government renege on other actions taken earlier like pensions, veteran’s benefits, etc etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1864 "2013-08-01T06:27:18Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Or are you planning on having the government renege on other actions taken earlier like pensions, veteran’s benefits, etc etc etc. If the money isn’t available or the will to remove pensions, benefits, etc, exists then they will be removed. Why should deals signed a 100 years ago be any different? Should we support the buggy whip industry to keep buggy whip makers employed? So, why should we keep giving money to people to remain in poverty on reservations when it clearly doesn’t work? Rather than throw the money away, just stop sending it and use on something that gives a better return. Something like buggy whips! ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1865 "2013-08-01T13:26:38Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > If the money isn’t available or the will to remove pensions, benefits, etc, exists then they will be removed. Why should deals signed a 100 years ago be any different? > > Should we support the buggy whip industry to keep buggy whip makers employed? So, why should we keep giving money to people to remain in poverty on reservations when it clearly doesn’t work? Rather than throw the money away, just stop sending it and use on something that gives a better return. Something like buggy whips! You know those deals are embedded in the constitution right? You know the Indian Act of 1876 was incorporated into the BNA and then into the constitution of 1982 so you know that to change those it requires the constitution be re-opened or the not withstanding clause be enacted. Give the poverty and desperation found on many reserves is the result of intentional federal policy which seems to show abdication of the federal role of fiduciary responsibility towards first nations I’m not sure just cutting them lose to sink or swim is the best way forward. I’m not sure what is though. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1866 "2013-08-01T14:02:32Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > You know those deals are embedded in the constitution right? You know the Indian Act of 1876 was incorporated into the BNA and then into the constitution of 1982 so you know that to change those it requires the constitution be re-opened or the not withstanding clause be enacted. It should never have been written into these documents. It just makes it that much harder to change. > [@](#): > > Give the poverty and desperation found on many reserves is the result of intentional federal policy which seems to show abdication of the federal role of fiduciary responsibility towards first nations I’m not sure just cutting them lose to sink or swim is the best way forward. I’m not sure what is though. Giving people money to do nothing ends up with them, oddly enough, doing nothing. Blaming someone else for it is just an excuse to continue the status quo. And the Feds are screwed no matter what they do. They intervene and the everyone blames them for interfering. They do nothing and everyone blames them for not doing enough. There isn’t a middle ground for them. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1867 "2013-08-01T19:54:00Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > If the money isn’t available or the will to remove pensions, benefits, etc, exists then they will be removed. Why should deals signed a 100 years ago be any different?\ That’s right - I recall 20 or so years ago when we had our employment CPP deductions doubled by the government to try to keep on funding the Canada pension plan. Things change. > [@Grey](#): > > You know those deals are embedded in the constitution right? You know the Indian Act of 1876 was incorporated into the BNA and then into the constitution of 1982 so you know that to change those it requires the constitution be re-opened or the not withstanding clause be enacted. > > Give the poverty and desperation found on many reserves is the result of intentional federal policy which seems to show abdication of the federal role of fiduciary responsibility towards first nations I’m not sure just cutting them lose to sink or swim is the best way forward. I’m not sure what is though. Constitutions are created by governments, and they can be changed by governments. It’s hard, but it can be done. I think most Canadians agree at this point that the reservation system isn’t working. I also think that most Canadians want Aboriginal Canadians to have a much better lives, rather than living in poverty, abuse, and substance addiction. > [@Uzi](#): > > \ > Giving people money to do nothing ends up with them, oddly enough, doing nothing. Blaming someone else for it is just an excuse to continue the status quo. And the Feds are screwed no matter what they do. They intervene and the everyone blames them for interfering. They do nothing and everyone blames them for not doing enough. There isn’t a middle ground for them. Like I said, [it has to come from within the Aboriginal population at this point.](http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/8thfire/2012/01/chief-clarence-louie-1.html) ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1868 "2013-08-03T02:30:24Z")
[And for the one thing this week](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=698363) that \*hasn’t \*made me angry and unpleasant - Happy Birthday Leaffan. Let’s hope we have you around for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1869 "2013-08-03T02:52:31Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > [And for the one thing this week](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=698363) that \*hasn’t \*made me angry and unpleasant - Happy Birthday Leaffan. Let’s hope we have you around for a long time. Thank you. That’s very kind. Peace to all my fellow Canadian friends. I’m going to a cottage in the middle of nowhere tomorrow. (Centennial Lake near Calabogie if you care to Google map it.) Live long and prosper. V Doug ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1870 "2013-08-03T03:06:13Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Thank you. That’s very kind. > > Peace to all my fellow Canadian friends. > > I’m going to a cottage in the middle of nowhere tomorrow. (Centennial Lake near Calabogie if you care to Google map it.) > > Live long and prosper. V > Doug Why yes, I have been drinking… ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1871 "2013-08-05T15:41:16Z")
Happy Simcoe Day to one and all! (That’s not just me being Toronto-centric - I think Simcoe should be honoured across Canada for taking the [early lead](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Graves_Simcoe#Legacy) in the fight to eliminate the institution of slavery.) I hope this first weekend in August is great for one and all, whatever you may call it locally. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1872 "2013-08-05T23:44:18Z")
Happy Whatever It’s Called In Your Province Day, everybody! We got back late last night from a family reunion weekend in Hepburn, Saskatchewan. Well. That was…interesting. 🙂 ETA: Happy birthday, **Leaffan!** I hope your next year is about a thousand times better than your last year. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1873 "2013-08-06T00:25:03Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Happy Whatever It’s Called In Your Province Day, everybody! > > We got back late last night from a family reunion weekend in Hepburn, Saskatchewan. Well. That was…interesting. 🙂 > > ETA: Happy birthday, **Leaffan!** I hope your next year is about a thousand times better than your last year. It’s called a work day in my province. It’s a day like any other here. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1874 "2013-08-06T01:13:19Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Happy Whatever It’s Called In Your Province Day, everybody! > > We got back late last night from a family reunion weekend in Hepburn, Saskatchewan. Well. That was…interesting. 🙂 Saskatchewan? I think I may have mentioned this before, but if you have people named Dennis in your family, we may be distantly related. (Scary, I know…) 🙂 > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > ETA: Happy birthday, **Leaffan!** I hope your next year is about a thousand times better than your last year. Happy belated birthday, **Leaffan**! ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1875 "2013-08-06T01:33:15Z")
Golly. Thanks guys. Apparently [Colonel By Day](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_By) is what we’re calling it here now. I had never heard of this before today. > [@](#): > > Lieutenant-Colonel John By (7 August 1779 – 1 February 1836) was a British military engineer, best remembered for supervising the construction of the Rideau Canal and, in the process, founding what would become the city of Ottawa. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1876 "2013-08-06T01:44:25Z")
I’m just happy that at the moment, I’m at a friend’s farm near Lake Simcoe in Ontario, where it is a holiday; rather than Alberta, where it tends to be a holiday depending on how your employer feels about it. I’ll add apologies to the Toronto Dopers: Had I been able to take a couple of days in the city itself, I would have given you all a heads-up. Unfortunately, scheduling and the things I had to take care of prevented that. Next time, I hope! ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1877 "2013-08-06T01:48:16Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I’m just happy that at the moment, I’m at a friend’s farm near Lake Simcoe in Ontario… > > I’ll add apologies to the Toronto Dopers… I may have to come and pester you in Alberta… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1878 "2013-08-06T01:56:28Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I may have to come and pester you in Alberta… 🙂 I don’t really contribute to this thread because I read what other people have written and end up feeling stupid in comparison. But if you guys organize an Alberta dopefest, can someone make sure I know about it as I’d show up if it wasn’t too far away. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1879 "2013-08-06T02:19:28Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I may have to come and pester you in Alberta… 🙂 Please do! We need an excuse for another Alberta Dopefest. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736/1880 "2013-08-06T02:42:28Z")
I hear the weather’s good there in the fall. But we’ve been through that a hundred times or more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736.md?page=93) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-canadoper-cafe-2013-edition/645736.md?page=95)