# "The Captain always goes down with the ship" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 13, 2006, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809 "2006-01-13T13:33:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/21 "2014-04-21T18:29:18Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Surely it would have been the Costa Concordia cruise liner, which foundered off the coast of Italy in January 2012 with more than 4,000 people on board. You might want to review the date of the post you’re responding to. I’m pretty sure it was _not_. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/22 "2014-04-21T18:29:52Z")
Unless **CalMeacham** is a secret time traveler, that’s unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/23 "2014-04-21T18:35:37Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Surely it would have been the Costa Concordia cruise liner, which foundered off the coast of Italy in January 2012 with more than 4,000 people on board. If **CalMeacham** had actually meant the _Costa Concordia_ it would have been amazingly prescient, since his post was made six years before the event.😉 ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/24 "2014-04-21T18:37:36Z")
yeah post #6 had the likely sinking ship. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/25 "2014-04-21T19:31:28Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > That was the Oceanos, which sunk in 1991 off the coast of South Africa. I remember the captain later said something along the lines of “When I give the order abandon ship, it doesn’t matter what time I leave. If some people want to stay, they can stay.” IIRC it was the entertainment crew that got the guests to the lifeboats. It almost sounds like some stupid kid’s poem: “Yiannis Avrannis, captain of the Oceanos.” 😃 IIRC, the sinking happened in part because of some neglected maintenance (coupled with a rogue wave), and was hastened (or at least not halted) by the evacuating crew neglecting to close hatches that would have prevented the flooding from spreading further than a certain point. [More here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceanos) And yes, clearly Captain Avrannis did not subscribe to the idea of TCGDWTS. An entire Wikipedia page on [The Captain Goes Down With The Ship.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_goes_down_with_the_ship) ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/26 "2014-04-21T19:37:18Z")
So far, it looks like “going down with the ship” features mainly in British & Japanese traditions. It’s probably significant that both cultures (currently or in the past) put a high value on honor/reputation. Basically, the shipwrecked captain’s reputation was ruined, and he would be held in contempt/dishonor if he survived, so there was really no point in surviving the shipwreck. Another contrubuting factor (that was already mentioned) is that many of these guys had all of their money invested in their ship, so if they survived, they had only a life of poverty to look forward to. Concern over the welfare of passengers & crew might figure in some cases, but probably only a fairly small minority of them. ---
**Author:** ![andrewm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c57346/32.png) [@andrewm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewm)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/27 "2014-04-21T21:05:59Z")
The captain of the Korean ferry that capsized didn’t go down with the ship but rather was one of the first off - leaving many to die - and is facing prosecution as a result. [http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/21/south-korea-president-captain-murder](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/21/south-korea-president-captain-murder) ---
**Author:** ![fishbite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ee59a6/32.png) [@fishbite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fishbite)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/28 "2014-04-21T21:47:13Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > So far, it looks like “going down with the ship” features mainly in British & Japanese traditions. It’s probably significant that both cultures (currently or in the past) put a high value on honor/reputation. Basically, the shipwrecked captain’s reputation was ruined, and he would be held in contempt/dishonor if he survived, so there was really no point in surviving the shipwreck. > > Another contrubuting factor (that was already mentioned) is that many of these guys had all of their money invested in their ship, so if they survived, they had only a life of poverty to look forward to. > > Concern over the welfare of passengers & crew might figure in some cases, but probably only a fairly small minority of them. Lindemann of the Bismarck went down with the ship … men in the lifeboats reported he stood at attention. There are many cases of it probably. Depends on if the Captain is a rat or not … ha ha ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/29 "2014-04-21T22:12:59Z")
On a somewhat related note, it used to be a regulation (and may still be) that any Captain in the British Navy whose ship sank was automatically court martialled. He wouldn’t necessarily be found guilty but the trial served as a review of his actions. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/30 "2014-04-21T22:24:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And in _Quicksilver_ by Neal Stephenson – [Quicksilver (novel) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quicksilver_%28novel%29) – the men of the island of Qwghlm ([Cryptonomicon - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qwghlm)) actually set up false signals to lure ships onto the rocks (and then do the same as described above). It appears to be their main source of income. Same has been said of the locals on the Danish coastline known as Jammerbugten (lit., “Bay of Lamentation”) - not that it took much for shipwrecks to happen there in the first place, it’s a low-lying lee shore with sand banks reaching far into the North Sea. The income from wreckage was considerable and had local nobles, including the notorious bishop “Stygge Krumpen”, feuding with the Crown about how to divide the proceeds. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/31 "2014-04-21T22:26:48Z")
The preview for this thread on the main screen is “The Captain always goes down…” ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/32 "2014-04-21T23:13:11Z")
I think the US Navy has long modified that to “The Captain is the last to leave the (sinking) ship.” ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/33 "2014-04-21T23:26:22Z")
Sadly, there was also the tradition that the captain’s children go down with the ship. Sadly, that is, for 19th C. children and their parents’ bored guests who had to endure recitation of the awful poetry it inspired. Casabianca: _The boy stood on the burning deck Whence all but he had fled; The flame that lit the battle’s wreck Shone round him o’er the dead._ The Wreck of the Hesperus: _It was the schooner Hesperus, That sailed the wintry sea; And the skipper had taken his little daughtèr, To bear him company._ ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/34 "2014-04-21T23:36:47Z")
that killed the popular “Take your child to work day” which had been popular and not revived until centuries later. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/35 "2014-04-21T23:49:09Z")
I was always under the assumption that the captain should be _the last_ one off the ship. Is that an unwritten rule/point of honor? I’m talking non-military. The Lord Jim thingy. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/36 "2014-04-22T00:05:42Z")
> [@andrewm](#): > > The captain of the Korean ferry that capsized didn’t go down with the ship but rather was one of the first off - leaving many to die - and is facing prosecution as a result. > > [http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/21/south-korea-president-captain-murder](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/21/south-korea-president-captain-murder) And his ship was filled with children. Given he did not do the honorable thing at the time of the accident, I doubt he’ll do the honorable thing now. Anyone want to get a pool going? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/37 "2014-04-22T04:09:27Z")
My understanding is that the captain wasn’t necessarily expected to drown when the ship sank, so much as he was expected to be the last one off if it did. Since ships didn’t have enough lifeboats for everyone until well into the 20th century, it’s not hard to see how the two events became related in the public mind. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/38 "2014-04-22T04:12:40Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > My understanding is that the captain wasn’t necessarily expected to drown when the ship sank, so much as he was expected to be the last one off if it did. > > Since ships didn’t have enough lifeboats for everyone until well into the 20th century, it’s not hard to see how the two events became related in the public mind. Maybe it is due to the expectation that the captain should do everything in his power to get everyone off the ship and should die trying to. - Note: I’m just throwing this out. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/39 "2014-04-22T04:17:39Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Maybe it is due to the expectation that the captain should do everything in his power to get everyone off the ship and should die trying to. - Note: I’m just throwing this out. I believe that “the captain should be the last one off the ship” entailed doing everything he could to ensure his passengers and crew made it off safely - not lounging around the bridge smoking cigars, drinking brandy and composing wrought Victorian prose while waiting for everyone else to sort things out for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![turtlescanfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@turtlescanfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/turtlescanfly)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/40 "2014-04-22T04:17:56Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > The case is still ongoing. I believe he claimed to have ‘accidentally’ fallen into a lifeboat. That’s what I recall as well. I also recall thinking that if it were me, and I really DID trip and fall into a lifeboat, I would have to lie and say something else happened, cuz damn that’s weak… along the lines of “how can you say that with a straight face?” Unless he’s going for some reverse psychology (“it must be true because even an idiot could think up a more plausible lie than that”) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809.md?page=3)