# "The Captain always goes down with the ship" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 13, 2006, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809 "2006-01-13T13:33:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/41 "2014-04-22T04:32:27Z")
What does it take to become a captain of the ship in question, or any cruise liner? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/42 "2014-04-22T04:42:31Z")
> [@Enterprise](#): > > Captain Leach of PRINCE OF WALES did not survive the sinking of his ship and was last seen standing on the bridge rather calmly; Captain Lindemann of BISMARCK ditto, apparently. Are you sure of that last one? I thought that the Bismarck bridge was virtually demolished by gunfire from British ships fairly early on in the battle. And that this is one of the questions about the scuttling & abandon ship orders – what officers were left alive to give these orders? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/43 "2014-04-22T04:55:56Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Sadly, there was also the tradition that the captain’s children go down with the ship. Sadly, that is, for 19th C. children and their parents’ bored guests who had to endure recitation of the awful poetry it inspired. > > Casabianca: > > _The boy stood on the burning deck > Whence all but he had fled; > The flame that lit the battle’s wreck > Shone round him o’er the dead._ The boy stood on the burning deck. The fire burned his feet like heck. The little boy jumped into the water. Playing with matches he shouldn’t have ought’er. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/44 "2014-04-22T05:02:04Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Are you sure of that last one? The bridge was destroyed and [Lindemann](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Lindemann) was probably killed then. However, other accounts said that he was seen later near the bow of the ship. > [@](#): > > Alternatively, Lindemann may have left his combat position when the ship’s controls were rendered inoperable, and prior to the lethal hit on the command position, in order to give the command to abandon the ship. The surviving Matrose Paul Hillen—who had managed to escape to the upper deck in the final phase of the battle, stated that he had seen a group of 20–30 people standing at the bow, among them a man with a white peaked cap. Normally on a German naval vessel at sea, a white cap is worn only by the commanding officer.[69] In addition, the surviving Maschinengefreiter—Rudolf Römer, who at the time was already in the water—claimed that he had seen Lindemann standing on the bow, near Bismarck’s forward 38 cm turret, Anton.[Notes 8] He was said to be with his combat messenger, a leading seaman, and apparently trying to persuade his messenger to save himself. In this account, his messenger took Lindemann’s hand and the two walked to the forward flagmast. As the ship turned over, the two stood briefly to attention, then Lindemann and his messenger saluted. As the ship rolled to port, the messenger dropped into the water and disappeared from view. Lindemann—continuing his salute while clinging to the flagmast—went down with the ship. He never came to the surface.[70][71] ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/45 "2014-04-22T06:50:03Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > What does it take to become a captain of the ship in question, or any cruise liner? Department of Transportation is in charge of professional licensing. They require mandatory time at sea and several examinations. Basically, you start as a licensed “Third Mate” and work your way up. To become a “Third Mate” you either attend a mariner’s academy (of which there are several) or accumulate a certain amount of time as a seaman and take some exams. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/46 "2014-04-22T09:55:04Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > And his ship was filled with children. Given he did not do the honorable thing at the time of the accident, I doubt he’ll do the honorable thing now. Anyone want to get a pool going? Leaving blood lust aside for a moment, what, _exactly_, do you consider to be “the honorable thing”? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/47 "2014-04-22T10:09:37Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > If **CalMeacham** had actually meant the _Costa Concordia_ it would have been amazingly prescient, since his post was made six years before the event.😉 I was clearly a zombie ship. I made the mistake of thinking that it was a response to the recent disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/48 "2014-04-22T11:42:23Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Leaving blood lust aside for a moment, what, _exactly_, do you consider to be “the honorable thing”? Maybe confusing Japanese with Korean attitudes on self-destruction; one involves a katana, the other soju. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/49 "2014-04-22T15:46:15Z")
Here are some good previous threads on the _Costa Concordia_ disaster: > **[Seeking captain's conversation with Coast Guard in original Italian](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=638875)** > > I am finding lots of translations of the Italian captain’s conversation with the Coast Guard. I am having trouble googling the original Italian. Have any pointers for googling for a non-English site? > **["Women and Children First!" on fated Italian cruise: policy or not?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=638516)** > > A crew member apparently shouted this during the loading of lifeboats. Standard operating procedure or chivalry? > **[Any chance they can get the grounded Italian ship back upright?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=638514)** > > Based on the photos, can they ever get this ship back upright? Maybe lots of tugboats? Its grounded on a sandbar and can’t sink. What would be the procedure for recovering the ship? I’m assuming they won’t wait a 100 years for it to rust away. > **[It's No Pit yet of the captain of the Concordia? Allow me](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=639113)** > > Jeez, what a scuzz ball. He runs the ship onto rocks while buzzing too close to an island to “salute” a pal on shore. He didn’t use the ship’s navigation system, he navigated by eye because he “knew the waters well.” A full half hour later, when... ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/50 "2014-04-22T17:55:49Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Maybe confusing Japanese with Korean attitudes on self-destruction; one involves a katana, the other soju. Nice. Having had soju, I believe I’d take the katana! ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/51 "2014-04-23T03:43:12Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > My understanding is that the captain wasn’t necessarily expected to drown when the ship sank, so much as he was expected to be the last one off if it did. > > Since ships didn’t have enough lifeboats for everyone until well into the 20th century, it’s not hard to see how the two events became related in the public mind. This all changed with the sinking of The Titanic. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/52 "2014-04-23T08:22:29Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > This all changed with the sinking of The Titanic. Which took place in 1912, which is “well into the 20th century”. That was my point. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/53 "2014-04-23T11:27:07Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Unless **CalMeacham** is a secret time traveler, that’s unlikely. Dammit! Outed! (Just a suggestion, but you might want to stock up on sunblock before July 14, 2015. Just sayin’) ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/54 "2014-04-23T13:05:12Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > On a somewhat related note, it used to be a regulation (and may still be) that any Captain in the British Navy whose ship sank was automatically court martialled. He wouldn’t necessarily be found guilty but the trial served as a review of his actions. I understood that you got a hearing if you even hit anything, let alone let the ship sink. Anyway, according to a document I’ve seen, British Navy captains should not give the order “abandon ship”. Even if the ship is sinking, they were expected to give more directive orders. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/55 "2014-04-23T17:35:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Surely it would have been the Costa Concordia cruise liner, which foundered off the coast of Italy in January 2012 with more than 4,000 people on board. > > It was reported that that the captain abandoned ship three-and-a-half hours before the last of his crew and passengers. The procurators’ office in Grosseto said that the Concordia hit submerged rocks at 9.45pm on Friday, and the last of the ship’s complement were not evacuated until 3am yesterday _Double-checking date of post_…if they were still evacuating almost 2 years later, I do blame the captain for leaving the ship! Just want to add that I thought that the tradition was that the captain made sure everybody else was off safely before leaving himself-see Sullenberger. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/56 "2014-04-23T17:47:10Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > …(Just a suggestion, but you might want to stock up on sunblock before July 14, 2015. Just sayin’) After my last trip back, I knew you would/are/have been/will be saying that. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/57 "2014-04-23T17:55:58Z")
According to this sad story from Korea, Korean law requires the captain to stay onboard until all passengers have disembarked. > **[Children's corpses reveal desperate attempts to escape Korean ferry](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA3F01Y20140423)** > > South Korean divers swam though dark, cold waters into a sunken ferry on Wednesday, feeling for children's bodies with their hands in a maze of cabins, corridors and upturned decks as they searched for hundreds of missing. ---
**Author:** ![Philliam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/philliam/32/3011_2.png) [@Philliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philliam)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/58 "2014-04-23T18:25:04Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > The boy stood on the burning deck. > The fire burned his feet like heck. > The little boy jumped into the water. > Playing with matches he shouldn’t have ought’er. My Grandad’s version: The boy stood on the burning deck Eatin’ peanuts by the peck A flame come up, hit ‘im on the chin But he just kept on puttin’ 'em in (He grew up in Arkansas, bless his heart)😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/59 "2014-04-23T19:01:59Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Dammit! Outed! > > (Just a suggestion, but you might want to stock up on sunblock before July 14, 2015. Just sayin’) Um… the Banana-Boat-brand cononut-flavoured type of sunblock, or the reinforced-concrete underground bunker type of sunblock? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/60 "2014-04-23T21:43:40Z")
Anybody not wearing 2 million sunblock is gonna have a real bad day. Get it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809.md?page=4)