# "The Captain always goes down with the ship" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 13, 2006, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809 "2006-01-13T13:33:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/61 "2014-04-24T03:01:16Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Which took place in 1912, which is “well into the 20th century”. That was my point. I agree with your point. My point was it was one event that made the change. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/62 "2014-04-24T03:26:24Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > According to this sad story from Korea, Korean law requires the captain to stay onboard until all passengers have disembarked. But it doesn’t say that he is in trouble if he falls out… They were being forced to the low side due to the leaning… Anyway, as with Concordia, he can say “It was better I was available to help the rescue”, which makes sense… at the time he could not be sure what would happen next - if the ferry sat on its side, or floated with the keel high in the air, he might have been able to guide the rescuers … ---
**Author:** ![Toledo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@Toledo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toledo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/63 "2014-04-25T02:02:26Z")
The boy stood on the burning deck His feet were full of blisters He stood on his hands to ease his feet And the wind blew through his whiskers. (sorry, couldn’t resist) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/64 "2014-04-25T02:14:26Z")
"The Boy stood on the burning deck Whence all but he had fled. Twit." Spike Milligan. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/65 "2014-05-02T14:11:12Z")
One example, from the [Entebbe hijacking](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Entebbe) > [@](#): > > The hijackers announced that the airline crew and non-Jewish passengers would be released and put on another Air France plane brought to Entebbe for that purpose. The captain of the original, hijacked Air France flight, Michel Bacos, then told the hijackers that all passengers, including those who remained, were his responsibility and that he would not leave them behind. Bacos’s entire crew followed suit. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/66 "2014-05-02T15:01:49Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Anybody not wearing 2 million sunblock is gonna have a real bad day. Get it? You may think time travel doesn’t exist, you may believe Michael J Fox really did save his parents relationship back in the 1950’s. But trust me on the sunscreen. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/67 "2023-11-07T14:25:18Z")
Bumped. This captain didn’t stick around - in fact, he was the first to abandon ship: [https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/07/us/california-dive-boat-captain-fire-guilty-verdict/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/07/us/california-dive-boat-captain-fire-guilty-verdict/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/68 "2023-11-07T14:57:24Z")
And nothing bad happened on July 14, 2015. Unless the negotiations leading to the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action with Iran prevented nukuler confrontation. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/69 "2023-11-07T15:19:58Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > This captain didn’t stick around - in fact, he was the first to abandon ship: Our neighbor’s daughter died in that tragedy. I’m glad he’s being held accountable. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/70 "2023-11-16T15:31:18Z")
Captain Lindemann of Bismark ? I think the superstructure was totally . unsurvivable … they were shelled for an hour ! Scharnhorst was also shelled before sinking. Two USN submarines intercepted the IJN at the Palawan Passage. IJN’s Atago was torpedoed and sunk in 20 minutes taking 360 with her, but her senior officers survived, apart from the Chief Engineer. She also had Admiral Kurita on board. Perhaps her Captain was assisting the admiral and so didnt feel suicidal… Hit at about that time, the IJN’s Maya took only 5 minutes to sink, and a similar number (330) were taken down with her… maybe about “300” were trapped below deck by the flooding ? so thats why the result is the same for both ships ? but Maya’s captain was lost… seemingly in a suicidal act. The next day Musashi was attacked by airplanes, and it was battered on top by numerous bombs, but also hit by 19 torpedoes !. her Captain, Inoguchi didn’t survive, its unclear if the captain was healthy when she sunk. the captain might have been injured in all that ?? Captain Buckmaster was the last person off the USS Yorktown, in the first abandonment, after having toured the ship himself to be sure there was no one left alive. As it happens, abandon ship was premature, and the early the next morning two crew members were rescued from Yorktown alive, but none died of injuries anyway. Then a repair crew went back on board. but not long after that Yorktown was hit by torpedoes from a submarine, dooming her. but Yorktown took until the next morning to finally sink. Well, despite the extended opportunity to do so (eg after having ensured his crew was safe. ) her captain didn’t return to go down with her. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/71 "2023-11-16T19:42:37Z")
Nor would anyone expect him to. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/72 "2023-11-16T20:18:12Z")
I don’t have a cite but I came across a story that claimed that during a battle all the officers on a French ship were killed except the ensign. The ensign abandoned ship and was later court martialed for dereliction of duty. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/73 "2023-11-16T20:49:56Z")
Hmm, I don’t know about that. Reminds me a bit of this incident from the War of 1812, though: [Why did Heinlein report incorrectly about Cox in Starship Troopers?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-heinlein-report-incorrectly-about-cox-in-starship-troopers/428303) ---
**Author:** ![Snipe70e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/51bf81/32.png) [@Snipe70e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snipe70e)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/74 "2023-11-16T23:12:55Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > What does it take to become a captain of the ship in question, or any cruise liner? The 1st major step is to become a 3rd mate. To become a 3rd mate you need 3 years of sea time in the different unlicensed deck positions. Then you have to pass a major test. It use to take about 5 days 8 hours each day for the test. Then sail as a 3rd for a year (365 days under articles) on a freighter or tanker over 6000 tons for an unlimited license. Take another more difficult test to become a 2nd mate. Do the same as a 2nd mate for a year. Then take the 1st mates test. Sail a year as a 1st mate. Then take and pass the masters test. For cruse ships it is almost the same. But a year as a licensed officer on a cruise ship only counts as 6 months. So it will take 2 years to up grade each license it time is spent only on cruise ships. But once you get your master’s ticket you will not become s ship’s captain on a cruise ship. That is for the senior captains. Someone with a captains ticket will be promoted in the company to the position of Staff captain for sometime before being promoted to the Captain of a cruise ship. ---
**Author:** ![Philliam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/philliam/32/3011_2.png) [@Philliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philliam)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/75 "2023-11-21T20:17:04Z")
My Grandad’s 1950’s version: “The Boy stood on the burning deck Eatin’ peanuts by the peck Flame come up and hit ‘em on the chin But he just kep’ on puttin’ 'em in” ---
**Author:** ![Philliam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/philliam/32/3011_2.png) [@Philliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philliam)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/76 "2023-11-21T20:38:07Z")
Yep, Cabin Creek, near Knoxville, Arkansas. Location now submerged in Lake Dardanelle. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/77 "2023-11-21T20:43:34Z")
> [@Snipe70e](#): > > he 1st major step is to become a 3rd mate. To become a 3rd mate you need 3 years of sea time in the different unlicensed deck positions. Then you have to pass a major test. It use to take about 5 days 8 hours each day for the test. Then sail as a 3rd for a year (365 days under articles) on a freighter or tanker over 6000 tons for an unlimited license. Take another more difficult test to become a 2nd mate. Do the same as a 2nd mate for a year. Then take the 1st mates test. Sail a year as a 1st mate. Then take and pass the masters test. For cruse ships it is almost the same. But a year as a licensed officer on a cruise ship only counts as 6 months. So it will take 2 years to up grade each license it time is spent only on cruise ships. > > But once you get your master’s ticket you will not become s ship’s captain on a cruise ship. That is for the senior captains. Someone with a captains ticket will be promoted in the company to the position of Staff captain for sometime before being promoted to the Captain of a cruise ship. A thread I started some years back: > [@The career path of a container ship captain?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-career-path-of-a-container-ship-captain/705164): > > Recently watched [Captain Phillips,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Phillips_(film)) which got me to wondering: how does one go about becoming the captain of a massive ocean-going vessel? Another thread on the subject: > [@What experience does the typical modern Cruise Ship Captain have?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-experience-does-the-typical-modern-cruise-ship-captain-have/816481): > > A lot of commercial airline pilots tend to be (at least in the past) former military due to their years of experience and training. Do you tend to see former military (either actual captains or other officers) as cruise ship captains or non-military but still experience boat captains? In general are cruise ship captains people who were in another shipping job and were enticed to join the cruise ship company, or are they people already with the company who were promoted from within to become cap… ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/78 "2023-11-21T21:10:44Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I remember a case several years ago when a cruise ship ran into some trouble, and the officers abandoned it, _including the captain_. Far from going down with his ship, he was one of the first ones off! He didn’t even see to the safety of his passengers. That would be the [Costa Concordia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Concordia_disaster). ---
**Author:** ![Snipe70e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/51bf81/32.png) [@Snipe70e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snipe70e)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/79 "2023-11-21T21:27:03Z")
> [@What experience does the typical modern Cruise Ship Captain have?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-experience-does-the-typical-modern-cruise-ship-captain-have/816481/1): > > Do you tend to see former military (either actual captains or other officers) as cruise ship captains or Seldom. With few exceptions the best a Naval officer could hope for would be a 3rds ticket. WE had an engineering teacher at the Maritime Academy retired captain from the Coast Guard. He was able to get a 1 on 1 Chief Engineer’s ticket. But he would have known the examining officer. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/80 "2023-11-21T21:41:22Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > An entire Wikipedia page on [The Captain Goes Down With The Ship.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_goes_down_with_the_ship) Missing from this Wikipedia list is the [Sinking of HMS Victoria](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_HMS_Victoria), lampooned in _Kind Hearts and Coronets._ “[Vice-Admiral Sir George] Tryon went down with his ship, his last reported words being “It is all my fault”. On the other extreme of the Birkenhead (whose women and children were the same race as the nobly self-sacrificed) was the crew of [SS Jedah,](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RGaaGN_WaTs&pp=ygUJU1MgSmVkZGFo) who inspired Conrad first few, wordy, wordy chapters of _Lord Jim._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809.md?page=5)