# "The Captain always goes down with the ship" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 13, 2006, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809 "2006-01-13T13:33:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/81 "2023-11-21T22:58:42Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > That would be the [Costa Concordia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Concordia_disaster). That’s only one of the more recent cases. Here’s one from 30 years ago: > **[MTS Oceanos | Aftermath](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTS_Oceanos#Aftermath)** > > Captain Avranas received extensive media coverage as an example of unprofessional behaviour whilst in command. He stated that he left the ship first to arrange for a rescue effort, and then supervised the rescue from a helicopter because "the batteries on the crew's walkie-talkies had died, meaning that he had no communications with his crew or with other rescue craft". He was quoted soon after the sinking as saying, "When I order abandon the ship, it doesn't matter what time I Dateline NBC aired... The Oceanos is also interesting because it seemingly had no maintenance work done at all. It encountered rough weather, but the flooding began because waste disposal system repairs hadn’t been finished; after lifeboats were launched, their engines would not start; and walkie-talkie batteries were all dead. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/82 "2023-11-22T01:59:36Z")
> [@Snipe70e](#): > > Seldom. With few exceptions the best a Naval officer could hope for would be a 3rds ticket. WE had an engineering teacher at the Maritime Academy retired captain from the Coast Guard. He was able to get a 1 on 1 Chief Engineer’s ticket. But he would have known the examining officer. Do you mean specifically cruise vessels? I’d agree with that as cruise vessel masters are a whole other thing from regular commercial masters. I’ve come across numerous ex Russian navy officers working as commercial vessel masters and officers. I’ve also come across numerous marine engineers who started out in the Australian Navy. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/83 "2023-11-22T13:47:55Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > > [@CalMeacham](#): > > > > I remember a case several years ago when a cruise ship ran into some trouble, and the officers abandoned it, _including the captain_. Far from going down with his ship, he was one of the first ones off! He didn’t even see to the safety of his passengers. > > That would be the [Costa Concordia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Concordia_disaster). @CalMeacham’s comment was from 2006. Costa Concordia was 2012. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/84 "2023-11-22T13:50:21Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > @CalMeacham’s comment was from 2006. Costa Concordia was 2012. - I had no idea that @CalMeacham is clairvoyant. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/85 "2023-11-22T14:20:52Z")
It’s the interocitor. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/86 "2023-11-22T15:11:16Z")
I think we’ve all known for a while that he’s a time traveler, though. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/87 "2023-11-22T15:37:56Z")
I knew you will did had posted that. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/88 "2023-11-22T15:54:50Z")
> [@Tevildo](#): > > I was always under the impression that this tradition started with the sinking of the _[Birkenhead](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Birkenhead_%281845%29)_ in 1852. Are there earlier examples? I think that was the tradition of “Women and Children First” (and IIRC rather than being an example of chivalric sacrifice, it actually required an officer to threaten the crew with a pistol to enforce the “women and children first” rule). The “captain goes down with his ship” as a written rule (or aspiration) goes back to a similar era (Victorian Britain’s seafaring) , but probably predates that. E.g. medieval Arab accounts (though in this its the loss of his “capital” that causes the captain to go down with his ship): > _The situation was now urgent; the lifeboat was put on the water and thirty-three men went down into it. Ahmed was pressed to go down into the lifeboat, but he said, “I shall not leave my ship, for there is more hope of it being saved than the lifeboat; and if it goes down, I go down with it, for I have no interest in returning after the loss of my capital.”_ > **[Surviving a Medieval Shipwreck - Medievalists.net](https://www.medievalists.net/2016/10/surviving-a-medieval-shipwreck/)** > > 'But then the wind came upon us from the mountains, and we could not handle the sails, and we were caught in the gale and the rain and thunder and lightning.' ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/89 "2023-11-23T01:40:33Z")
After the development of the insurance market, the master would not necessarily have faced loss of his fortune, even if his only asset was the ship and it sank. Lloyds (while not the only or first insurance market) got going in 1688. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/90 "2023-11-23T02:09:32Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > That was the Oceanos, which sunk in 1991 off the coast of South Africa. I remember the captain later said something along the lines of “When I give the order abandon ship, it doesn’t matter what time I leave. If some people want to stay, they can stay.” **IIRC it was the entertainment crew that got the guests to the lifeboats.** I saw a documentary in which a (British?) member of the band recounted calling for help on the radio. When asked what rank he was, he replied, “Uh… I’m a guitar player”. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809/91 "2023-11-23T02:29:51Z")
There’s also the inspiration for the main inciting incident in _Lord Jim_, SS Jeddah, in which the captain and crew abandoned the passengers on what they believed was a doomed vessel… only to have the vessel taken under tow by a passing steamer and brought safely into port: > **[SS Jeddah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Jeddah)** > > SS Jeddah was a British-flagged Singaporean-owned passenger steamship. It was built in 1872 in Dumbarton, Great Britain, especially for the Hajj pilgrim trade, and was owned by Singapore-based merchant Syed Mahomed Alsagoff. In 1880, the officers onboard the Jeddah abandoned it when it listed and appeared to be sinking, leaving more than 700 passengers aboard. The event later inspired the plot of Joseph Conrad's novel Lord Jim. The vessel was retrieved and continued to sail, later being rename... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-captain-always-goes-down-with-the-ship/339809.md?page=4)