# The Carnaygay and N.E.E.K.C. Foundations; another NPR pronunciation rant **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 28, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365 "2004-01-28T01:35:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/21 "2004-01-29T17:44:13Z")
> [@masonite](#): > > I’ve never been able to ascertain – and I’ve been trying for about a decade now – whether it’s “Mara Liason” or “Maral Eyison.” > > Once, for about a week, she took to separating her first and last names with great care, pausing for about a second-and-a-half between them. For that week I knew whether she was Mara or Maral. But then she went back to her old ways and I’ve forgotten again. They certainly have a penchant for hard-to-understand names. Is it “Jo-Anne Selburner”, or “Jo Anselburner”? A similar example is when they give props to the “Lou C. Kerr Foundation”. Fortunately, from the way they carefully enunciate it, it’s clear that it isn’t the “Lucy Kerr” foundation". Still, it bugs me anyway, because initials used with nicknames or diminuated names just seem wrong to me. Cf. “L. Ron Hubbard”. ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/22 "2004-01-29T17:51:44Z")
Darn, I always thought it was “Maura” Liasson, since that’s how she pronounces it. If I saw the name Mara in print I’d pronounce the first A as in “cat”. I’ve long since tuned out the pretentiousness on People’s Republic Radio. Last summer’s “nee-ZHER” didn’t even faze me. Robert “Sheegle” from “NPR noozh” does drive me nuts, however, as does his colleague “MEE-shell Norris.” What’s the matter, does “Mih-SHELL” sound too Valley-Girlish for ya? I was also surprised to learn that the person verbally referred to as “Wawn” Williams is actually named Juan (prounced by us whitebread 'merkins as “hwahn”.) ---
**Author:** ![peasea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc79bd/32.png) [@peasea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peasea)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/23 "2004-01-29T19:27:27Z")
[Sylvia Poggioli](http://www.npr.org/about/people/bios/spoggioli.html) [Lakshmi Singh](http://www.npr.org/about/people/bios/lsingh.html) [Joanne Silberner](http://www.npr.org/about/people/bios/jsilberner.html) And for extra credit, [Snigdha Prakash](http://www.npr.org/about/people/bios/sprakash.html) [All the names are here.](http://www.npr.org/about/people/bios/) ---
**Author:** ![Interrobang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/interrobang/32/17463_2.png) [@Interrobang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interrobang)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/24 "2004-01-29T19:32:23Z")
I don’t get why it’s pretentious to pronounce people’s names the way they’d like. I remember discussions about the pronunciation of Niger, and it turns out that their embassy favors nee-JHER. Why should NPR ignore that? And I’m fairly certain that Juan Williams, Michelle Norris, Mandalit del Barco and _everyone else on the freaking network_ pronounces his or her own name correctly, whether or not it’s how you’d pronounce it if it were your name. (Also: Michelle Norris has a tremendously sexy voice. Sexy, sexy, sexy. And even though she doesn’t correct interviewees who pronouce it mi-SHELL, I’d do it for her anytime just to hear her talk some more. “Senator Kerry? That’s MEE-shell. Yeah, I know, but what are you gonna do? Just get it right next time.” I want her to record the message on my home answering machine, if you know what I mean.) ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/25 "2004-01-31T20:04:37Z")
> [@Interrobang!?](#): > > I don’t get why it’s pretentious to pronounce people’s names the way they’d like. I remember discussions about the pronunciation of Niger, and it turns out that their embassy favors nee-JHER. Why should NPR ignore that? Well, then, NPR should then pronounce Buffalo as “Bufflo” … after all, that’s how it’s pronounced there. Why are place names in Spanish-speaking countries pronounced as if they’re being uttered by an exuberant Univision announcer, while they don’t call the capital of France “Paree”? Why doesn’t the media in Spanish-speaking countries reciprocate, and start calling our nation’s largest city “New York,” pronounced in a proper accent, instead of “Nueva Yorrrrrrk?” ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/26 "2004-01-31T20:16:31Z")
From _The Onion_: > [@](#): > > Corey Flintoff Unleashes Sonorous, Pleasantly Modulated String Of Obscenities > > WASHINGTON, DC—Upon injuring a toe Sunday, Corey Flintoff, newscaster for NPR’s All Things Considered, unleashed a string of rich, pleasantly modulated obscenities. “God fucking dammit,” Flintoff warmly intoned after dropping a heavy-duty router on his foot while working in his garage. “Stupid fucking cocksucking son of a bitch.” Added Flintoff in a lush baritone: “Goddamn motherfucking shit-for-brains. This is NPR.” Next-door neighbor Cheryl Thomas, who overheard the tirade, said Flintoff’s delivery was so melodic, she was unaware that he was swearing. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/27 "2004-01-31T23:37:21Z")
Lately it seems that every person in the media has taken to pronouncing “negotiate” as “nee-go-SEE-ate” rather than the more conventional “nee-go-SHEE-ate”. It may well be an acceptable variation, although I never heard it at all until anouncers started using it about five years ago. Why is this odd pronounciation now universal? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/28 "2004-02-01T01:14:02Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Why are place names in Spanish-speaking countries pronounced as if they’re being uttered by an exuberant Univision announcer, Can’t really blame NPR for that one… all the networks were doing it back in the '80s, what with all the coverage of Central America, and it just stuck. But yes, it _is_ an annoyance to put on an unnatural affectation of pronunciation when there are perfectly good transliteratios. Just so y’all know, here in PR, WE are getting that with many of OUR newscasters, when referring to non-Hispanic names or people/places. Of course, the problem ours have is that the only sample they have ever had of how an Arab, Frenchman, German, Japanese or Indian pronounces things, is old movies… Drives me to scream at my dashboard during my morning drive. On the NPR issue may I say that I, too, feel uplifted and motivated whenever Sylvia Poggioli says her name… it feels like it’s something you should say before slamming down a drink. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/29 "2004-02-01T01:18:49Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > On the NPR issue may I say that I, too, feel uplifted and motivated whenever Sylvia Poggioli says her name… it feels like it’s something you should say before slamming down a drink. Oh, yeahhhh. ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/30 "2004-02-01T01:31:19Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Well, then, NPR should then pronounce Buffalo as “Bufflo” … after all, that’s how it’s pronounced there. Why are place names in Spanish-speaking countries pronounced as if they’re being uttered by an exuberant Univision announcer, while they don’t call the capital of France “Paree”? Why doesn’t the media in Spanish-speaking countries reciprocate, and start calling our nation’s largest city “New York,” pronounced in a proper accent, instead of “Nueva Yorrrrrrk?” There seems to be a trend afoot to replace the old-fashioned English names for foreign places with the place names in their own language. We’ve had Beijing instead of Peking for a while now, and there seems to be an effort to displace Bombay with Mumbai. It may seem innocuous, but I wonder whether what’s really going on is that it’s becoming politically incorrect to use the English names, so that in 20 years we’re going to be charged with hate crimes for saying Japan instead of Nihon. As an antidote, I like to practice saying “eye-RACK” every time I hear a news announcer say “ee-RAWK”. ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/31 "2004-02-01T02:30:22Z")
> [@fishbicycle](#): > > Carl Kassell’s dentures get in the way of his speech, and it drives me up the wall! He sounds like he has a mouthful of marbles. Two gripes: 1. The NPA announcer has a helluva grating voice. He tries so hard, but the moment I hear him, I’m switching to Polka music or Tupac or praying for static. 2. One of the locals in the Washington metro area sounds like he’s just eaten a stack of waffles swimming in thick molasses. I’m sure he’s a lovely fellow, but his voice rubs me the wrong way. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/32 "2004-03-19T12:05:07Z")
> [@JessEnigma](#): > > You only _think_ you know how to pronounce Carnegie. I thought I knew the pronunciation too…until I went to college near Pittsburgh. Most of the locals pronounced it Car-NAY-gee. But only when referring to the museums and CMU. As a name, it was said the usual way, much to the confusion of out-of-state students. Hate to bump this, but I thought I’d mention that [the town](http://www.city-data.com/city/Carnegie-Pennsylvania.html) is also called Car-NAY-gee. I’m pretty much physically incapable of refering to Andrew Carn-a-gee or Carn-a-gee Hall–open my mouth and Car-NAY-gee comes out. How thrilling to hear that Andrew himself used the Car-NAY-gee. ---
**Author:** ![Interrobang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/interrobang/32/17463_2.png) [@Interrobang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interrobang)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/33 "2004-03-19T17:31:48Z")
As long as the thread’s been bumped, I want to confess that I was incorrect. [According to the NPR ombudsman](http://www.npr.org/yourturn/ombudsman/2003/030716.html), at least, Niger should be pronounced NY-jer, not nee-ZHAIR, on NPR. (Scroll down to “You Say ‘Nee-Jair’ But I Don’t” on the linked page.) He cites NPR’s reference librarian, who sides with NY-jer because it’s more familiar to the majority of Americans. In this case, they argue, it’s more important to be familiar than natively accurate. I was mixing up NPR’s official viewpoint with [this column from Slate.com](http://slate.msn.com/id/2085735/), which states definitively that “it’s _not_ ‘NYE-jur.’” Sorry. But I still don’t get why people gripe about how other people pronounce their own names… ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/34 "2004-03-23T18:13:39Z")
The one that always caught me was … Kor Vakollman? Korvak Oleman? Ah … it’s Korva Coleman! > [@peasea](#): > > Until the end, that is, when she says her name and suddenly transforms into a correspondent for Univision. I am a born-and-bred American, but I don’t Anglicize the pronunciation of my name, which is not an English name. Are you going to make fun of me as well? > [@peasea](#): > > And do you suppose this woman’s parents really called her MEE-shell, or did she think mi-SHELL was too boring? What makes you so sceptical that she’s pronouncing her own name the way it’s supposed to be pronounced? > [@Arcite](#): > > Darn, I always thought it was “Maura” Liasson, since that’s how she pronounces it. If I saw the name Mara in print I’d pronounce the first A as in “cat”. To me, there’s a difference between “Mara” (mah-rah) and “Maura” (maw-rah). I’ve never heard the “cat” one. > [@Arcite](#): > > I was also surprised to learn that the person verbally referred to as “Wawn” Williams is actually named Juan (prounced by us whitebread 'merkins as “hwahn”.) Sorry, there are plenty of whitebread Americans who use the _Anglicized_ pronunciation “Wan” for “Juan” rather than the correct Spanish pronunciation “Hwan.” Don’t you remember “Welcome Back, Kotter”? > [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Lately it seems that every person in the media has taken to pronouncing “negotiate” as “nee-go-SEE-ate” rather than the more conventional “nee-go-SHEE-ate”. It may well be an acceptable variation, although I never heard it at all until anouncers started using it about five years ago. Why is this odd pronounciation now universal? It’s Henry Kissinger’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/35 "2004-03-23T22:57:12Z")
[QUOTE=An Arky] I don’t remember the names, but there’s a woman with a lisp, Castle and Daniel Schorr both have that jowl-flapping thing going on, several that have foreign accents (not really a problem for me), that aforementioned Elmer Fudd-sounding guy, etc. [QUOTE] Hey, cut my man Dan some slack – he’s about 100 years old, and still pulling his weight. I only hope I’m half as lucid at his age. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/36 "2004-03-24T01:41:27Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > There seems to be a trend afoot to replace the old-fashioned English names for foreign places with the place names in their own language. We’ve had Beijing instead of Peking for a while now, and there seems to be an effort to displace Bombay with Mumbai. It may seem innocuous, but I wonder whether what’s really going on is that it’s becoming politically incorrect to use the English names, so that in 20 years we’re going to be charged with hate crimes for saying Japan instead of Nihon. Standard practice for years. After all people did call the capital of China “Peiping” before it was “Peking.” The Chinese made a change to how their language was transliterated, using the pinyin system as opposed to the older Wade-Giles system. Pinyin represented the sounds more accurately (that should put an end to the criticism, since “accuracy” is a godlike concept these days). Remember, the rules of following the preferred proununciation apply to personal names, not place names. There are some exceptions where the place names don’t match the pronunciation (Cairo, IL (KAY-ro) or Valatie, NY (Vu-LAY-shuh) ), but a regional accent is not reason for pronuncing the name that way. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/37 "2004-03-24T01:57:05Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > I must concur. The Wifestrocity and her family are from Pittsburgh. They’re not putting on airs, Car-NAY-gee is how the family name is pronounced by the locals where the Carnegie’s lived and earned their whorish millions. It makes sense, it’s an Irish name. Maloney, O’Malley, Malone, MacGowan, all stressed on the second syllable. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/38 "2004-03-24T05:39:24Z")
On a related note, I wonder if the Robert Woodjohnson Foundation is the charitable arm of Enzyte. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2004, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365/39 "2004-03-24T15:43:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Pinyin represented the sounds more accurately This is nonsense, of course. Pinyin is merely a _different_ system from Wade-Giles and like most transliteration schemes it is largely arbitrary. In fact, while Pinyin works better for native Chinese speakers, Wade-Giles works much better for native English speakers. How, for example, are transliterations like “Qing” more “accurate” when those who don’t already know Chinese have no idea how to pronounce them? Take “Beijing” for example – this Pinyin transliteration has led English speakers to pronounce the name as “Bay-jing,” whereas a more accurate pronunciation would be “Pay-ching.” It’s important to keep in mind that _no_ transliteration scheme can be completely accurate because when transliterating from one language to another there are always sounds that aren’t representable in the other language. Nevertheless, I strongly believe that Pinyin is a disaster and should be ignored by native English speakers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-carnaygay-and-n-e-e-k-c-foundations-another-npr-pronunciation-rant/226365.md?page=1)