# The Case Against George W Bush **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 21, 2004, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888 "2004-08-21T21:38:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/21 "2004-08-22T20:52:30Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > _Away out here they have a name for rain and wind and fire. > The rain is Tess, the fire’s Joe and they call the windy…pariah!_ On a related note, being ahead of the curve has some of the same benefits as being lead dog. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/22 "2004-08-22T21:14:02Z")
He has the best view, but gets his ass bit. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/23 "2004-08-22T22:44:46Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Yeah, so? This news is right up their with “Pope Found to be Catholic; Film at eleven.” > > It’s when a Reagan _breaks_ from the elephant herd that newsworthiness is found. Was Ron Jr a republican prior to this elections cycle? I haven’t followed his career (such as it is) very closely, but he always \*\*\*seem \*\* \* more democratish than republican to me. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/24 "2004-08-22T22:49:19Z")
Ron Jr. is a garden-variety liberal, Mike is a Republican. He’s adopted, and nobody likes him. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/25 "2004-08-22T22:56:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Ron Jr. is a garden-variety liberal, Mike is a Republican. He’s adopted, and nobody likes him. Who’s adopted-- Ron or Mike? ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/26 "2004-08-23T00:24:30Z")
Michael Reagan is adopted. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/27 "2004-08-23T00:29:10Z")
What does it say when the nation’s most beloved modern Republican has sired only liberals who sometimes hated his guts? I honestly don’t know, I just wonder. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/28 "2004-08-23T00:34:37Z")
> [@Ukulele Ike](#): > > Not true! > > Koch has _always_ been loopy. You know, I’ve heard the story that he actually _does_ ask his question during sex. (But that might be impishness) Yeah, Koch’s always been New York Loopy, but this time, he’s really _changed_. That I Heart NY poster with the charred section? That’s him. He loves this city, and when it was hurt… it hurt him. Badly. I can sympathesize, I can empathize, but I don’t agree. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/29 "2004-08-23T15:10:24Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Crossover voting happens in every presidential election, and happens in both directions. This is very true. A lot of Democrats voted for Reagan and I imagine a significant number of Republicans voted for Clinton, although not to nearly the level of Dems that voted for Reagan. In fact, Reagan probably single-handedly stemmed the tide of disenchanted Republicans in the post Watergate era (full disclosure, I never particularly cared for Reagan but I have to give him his props as the consumate politician). Anyway, the point here is that it _seems_ that a lot of Republican voters (or people who sometimes vote Republican) trusted GWB on his whole “compassionate conservative” thing, which allowed people like me, who want to be fiscally conservative but socially liberal, to get conned. And they are upset. But is this a true trend, or is it just DNC or related group hype? That’s what I really wanted to get at here; I did not really feel we needed another “Bash Bush” thread, although that is a risk one runs starting any thread on Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/30 "2004-08-23T21:40:59Z")
Can’t really tell until November. I do know that my mom and one brother are both voting for Bush, and they’re both registered Democrats. I don’t know yet about other family members. They seem up in the air still. Take from that what you will. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/31 "2004-08-24T19:39:09Z")
Just read an article from Stephen D. Hayes in the Op-Ed section of today’s St. Pete Times about how the current administration has strayed from the GOP’s historical base. > [@](#): > > The GOP now embraces millions of movement conservatives, neoconservatives, religious righters. But it also includes a huge, although relatively less active, group of traditional Republicans. Republicans who, when they vote in November may conclude that their old-fashioned, good government values - such as fiscal discipline, limited government and individual responsibility - are more important than the modern cultural values. > > If they do, they just might disconnect from power a Republican administration that has itself become disconnected from its own Republican philosophical roots. And that would be the final irony. This is excerpted from a larger piece which I can’t find a link to online, but I believe it was originally from the Baltimore Sun (maybe August 19?). Stephen D. Hayes was a political appointee in the Reagan and George H. W. Bush administrations. If/when I see other notable “defections” I’ll note them in here. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/32 "2004-08-24T20:16:47Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > This is excerpted from a larger piece which I can’t find a link to online, but I believe it was originally from the Baltimore Sun (maybe August 19?). Stephen D. Hayes was a political appointee in the Reagan and George H. W. Bush administrations. [Here you go.](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.republicans19aug19,0,721293.story?coll=bal-oped-headlines) Great article, btw. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. I have a Republican friend (who’s also voting for Kerry in November, and registered at the Republicans for Kerry website) that I’m going to send it to. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/33 "2004-08-24T23:49:38Z")
“Mr. Reagan shouldered the burden of the Marines killed in Lebanon and for the Iran-contra episode.” :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/34 "2004-08-25T02:15:16Z")
One more small datum: My older brother, who lives in Illinois, is a solid Republican. Been mayor of his small town, a volunteer fireman; business executive, family man. Graduate of Norwich and did his time in the Army (noncombat by luck of the draw, though he did demolish a tank on maneuvers in Texas.) Just became the proud owner of a Golden Retriever puppy. The very image of a photo-op GOPer. But he’s not voting for Bush. He’s got doubts about Kerry, and may well not vote for him; but he can’t bring himself to vote for Bush. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/35 "2004-08-25T04:53:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > He also says he doesn’t vote, as a general rule. My personal Betty Noyer is people who don’t _fucking_ vote! Goddammit! Shitfuckpisscrap! This bugged me, too, until I noticed that he’s only 21, so he’s only been eligible to vote in the 2002 mid-term election and maybe the recent primaries. (He said he thought he was registered as an independent, which might mean he couldn’t vote for either party’s candidates.) So it’s not as though he has a long habit of not voting. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/36 "2004-08-25T13:04:39Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > 1. Are the lies cited in the article true? Er, you might want to rephrase that… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/37 "2004-08-25T13:23:36Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > Er, you might want to rephrase that… :smack: Yeah, that’s definitely worth a head smack. Maybe, Are the lies cited in this article verifiable? I dunno, help me out here. No caffeine, brain no work good. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/38 "2004-08-25T13:54:23Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Yeah, that’s definitely worth a head smack. Maybe, > > Are the lies cited in this article verifiable? I dunno, help me out here. No caffeine, brain no work good. Everything I say is a lie. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888/39 "2004-08-25T14:25:32Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Everything I say is a lie. Now you’ve made my brain explode, stop it very much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-george-w-bush/260888.md?page=1)