# The case against Lee H. Oswald **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 24, 2023, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643 "2023-11-24T18:35:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/201 "2023-11-28T16:50:37Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > FBI agent Elmer Lee Todd signs off as having received it at 8:50 PM, but when he hands it off to FBI lab technician Robert Frazier, Frazier records the time he got it from Todd as 7:30 PM on 11/22/63. Wait, I’m going to need to back up here. I did seek out these documents. Please correct me if I’m mistaken, but the statement “ FBI agent Elmer Lee Todd signs off as having received it at 8:50 PM” _appears_ to come from this document. [![](https://i.ibb.co/thYD3VD/4-BE21-BD3-0-A41-4-E02-AB3-C-1-CA021-D18-A5-B.png) ](https://i.ibb.co/thYD3VD/4-BE21-BD3-0-A41-4-E02-AB3-C-1-CA021-D18-A5-B.png) [https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10721#relPageId=18](https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10721#relPageId=18) If so, the statement that substantiates your definitive claim is > [@](#): > > SA Elmer L. Todd was given the bullet enclosed in an envelope and a short memorandum by [illegible] Johnson explaining how he came into his possession. The time of delivery was **approximately** 8:50 pm, Friday, November 22, 1963. (My emphasis) And, by the way, this was dated in December. Please tell me there’s another source for this time. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/202 "2023-11-28T17:56:33Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Please tell me there’s another source for this time. Okay. There’s another source for this time. At the 21 minute mark in the Stone documentary, we are shown multiple contemporaneous (i.e. written on 11/22/63) documents that WC had access to showing the 7:30 time appearing after the 8:30 PM time in the chain of custody. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/203 "2023-11-28T18:38:10Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > There’s another source for this time. So, after more digging, I agree with you. [![](https://i.ibb.co/gy9gJL1/820-BE49-C-9-A94-47-E4-92-C6-CCAA4-E444249.jpg) ](https://i.ibb.co/gy9gJL1/820-BE49-C-9-A94-47-E4-92-C6-CCAA4-E444249.jpg) But, in finding that, I also found a rebuttal to two of Stone’s salacious claims. That the bullets weren’t marked with the investigators’ initials, and that the time discrepancy is unexplainable. As to the initials, it’s really a matter of having high quality pictures. The writing is _very faint_, but the bullets _are_ initialed. > [@](#): > > Five items from the ballistic evidence, including CE 399, the nearly whole bullet often called the “stretcher bullet,” were transported from NARA’s vault to NIST’s climate-controlled facility in nearby Gaithersburg, Maryland. NIST technicians then used a technique called “focus variation microscopy” to create [three-dimensional (3D) digital replicas](https://catalog.archives.gov/id/149274356) of these five items. “These virtual artifacts are as close as possible to the real things,” observed Martha Murphy, NARA’s deputy director of government information. And in some respects the 3D visual replicas are better because they are easier to manipulate. Researchers can rotate the object along any axis; change colors to better discern minute features; and, of course, greatly enlarge minute areas without losing any sharpness.[[5]](https://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2022/06/roe3.html#fn5) > > The [NIST team](https://www.nist.gov/feature-stories/preserving-kennedy-assassination-bullets-digital-form) also used its temporary custody of these artifacts to take [archival-quality, high-resolution photos](https://catalog.archives.gov/id/149274356) of each item. These pictures are more than sufficient for researchers to discern even small features that might be barely visible to the naked eye—such as initials said to be carved in CE 399 to document the chain of custody.[[6]](https://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2022/06/roe3.html#fn6) > > The nose of CE 399, with its copper jacket twisted but still attached, is where federal agents left their respective marks. This area was chosen so as not to disturb in any way the unique rifling that occurs whenever a bullet passes through a barrel at a high velocity. Akin in a way to human fingerprints, these signature marks on every fired bullet are what allow firearms examiners to determine if a bullet came from a particular weapon. Bullets or fragments thereof recovered from a crime scene are compared to bullets known to be test-fired from the weapon in question. > > All told, there are four sets of initials on CE 399’s nose: “RF” for Robert Frazier; “JH” for Cortlandt Cunningham, who was another bureau agent in the FBI Lab’s Firearms Identification Unit; “CK” for Charles Killion, also an agent with expertise in firearms identification who double-checked Frazier’s work. And lastly, a fourth set of easily discernible initials that read “ET,” for Elmer Todd. Here’s one example [![](https://i.ibb.co/gDsTJ7F/7123748-F-535-A-4-B00-9-A3-B-5-DCE9-F4-A4-F47.jpg) ](https://i.ibb.co/gDsTJ7F/7123748-F-535-A-4-B00-9-A3-B-5-DCE9-F4-A4-F47.jpg) As to the timing issue > [@](#): > > they [Stone and the other producer] rely on Mantik and Hunt. In a 2006 article the latter alleged that Frazier received a bullet from Todd at 7:30 PM, although the evidence envelope that contained CE 399 indicates that Todd himself did not actually receive CE 399 from Secret Service chief Rowley at the White House until 8:50 PM. So how could Frazier have received it 80 minutes earlier? This discrepancy, supposedly, is further proof of something sinister regarding the CE 399’s chain of custody… > > There was nothing sinister about the timing. When Frazier received the bullet, attached to the envelope was a brief note from Richard Johnsen, dictated or typed at 7:30 PM, in which the Secret Service agent described from whom, and under what circumstances—to the best of this knowledge—the bullet was retrieved at Parkland. Presumably he did this in lieu of putting his own initials on what would eventually be designated CE 399. Subsequently, while Frazier was preparing to testify before the Warren Commission for the first time on 31 March 1964, rather than use the time he actually received the bullet, he simply jotted down on his testimony worksheet the time referenced in Johnsen’s note. Here’s the chain of custody > [@](#): > > - About 45 minutes after the remnants of the motorcade arrive at Parkland, Darrell C. Tomlinson, a senior engineer, pushes a recently-used stretcher cart against the wall on the ground floor; the bump causes a spent bullet to roll out from under the edge of the mat. > - Some 15-20 minutes later, Tomlinson brings the bullet to the attention of O. P. Wright, Parkland’s director of personnel and hospital security, and a former Dallas police officer. > - Wright gives the bullet to Secret Service agent Richard E. Johnsen about five minutes before Mrs. Kennedy and the late president—now in a coffin—leave the hospital at around 2 PM CST. > - Johnsen returns to Washington aboard Air Force One just after 6 PM EST. Once he arrives at the White House he hands the bullet over to Secret Service chief James J. Rowley. Johnsen then writes a very brief memo at 7:30 PM memorializing his receipt of the bullet from Wright. > - Special agent Elmer Lee Todd from the FBI’s Washington Field Office takes custody of the bullet from Rowley at 8:50 PM. > - Todd finally delivers the bullet to FBI special agent Robert A. Frazier, a firearms and ballistics examiner, at the Bureau’s Crime Lab. Both [Todd and Frazier put their initials](https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57689#relPageId=97&search=todd_and%20initials) on the spent bullet. [https://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2022/06/roe3.html](https://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2022/06/roe3.html) ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/204 "2023-11-28T18:46:11Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > attached to the envelope was a brief note from Richard Johnsen, dictated or typed at 7:30 PM Can you produce a copy of this “brief note”? Or are we taking someone’s word that this note once existed but now is lost to the mysteries of time? I find it quite astonishing how many pieces of paper in this investigation have a way of vanishing. > [@Moriarty](#): > > I also found a rebuttal to two of Stone’s salacious claims. Unless you find Stone’s film more sexually stimulating than I do, I think you may be misunderstanding what the word “salacious” means. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/205 "2023-11-28T18:49:00Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > Can you produce a copy of this “brief note”? I can! [![](https://i.ibb.co/59Vs1Dz/30-AB22-E6-4727-44-FB-A2-B1-2-E88-CAF15-B45.jpg) ](https://i.ibb.co/59Vs1Dz/30-AB22-E6-4727-44-FB-A2-B1-2-E88-CAF15-B45.jpg) > [@slicedalone](#): > > I think you may be misunderstanding what the word “salacious” means. Ha! You got me there. ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/206 "2023-11-28T19:36:08Z")
If the CIA killed Kennedy for not wanting to go into Vietnam, why didnt they kill Nixon for pulling out? And how did that Mob meeting go “ Lets kill that \*\*\*\*\*\* Kennedy. If we succeed unnoticed the heats off and our operations prosper! If we get caught we all get interned and the CIA pull our fingernails out until we confess to everything! Plan! “ ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/207 "2023-11-28T19:38:51Z")
OK, first place, what significance if any do you attach to the attestation in that note “It could not be determined who had used this stretcher or if President Kennedy had occupied it”? To me, it sounds like the first link in this chain of custody could have been planted, at worst, or switched out, to begin with. “Hey, Bubba, we’re gonna need some bullets to prove stuff. Ya got anything that we could stick on a stretcher while things are still confusing and there are still secret service agents hanging around? Yeah, that looks good–oh, any old stretcher will do, just do it fast.” Regarding the timeline, that note shows how the security guard at Parkland, Wright, transferred it to Agent Johnsen and Johnsen delivered it to Rowley at the White House at 7:30 PM, which wasn’t in question. What was in question was Rowley’s delivering the bullet to E. L. Todd at 8:50 PM that night, which is supported by a handwritten note marked Q1 signed by Todd. A memo (which appears on screen in Stone’s film at about the 20 minute mark) gives the time that Todd delivered the bullet to the lab (Robert Frazier, lab technician) as 7:30 PM. How can Todd give a bullet he received at 8:50 PM to the lab an hour and twenty minutes earlier? Were there perhaps two different bullets, and the WC pretended that it was one bullet? Stone’s chart has the bullet going from Tomlinson (Parkland maintenance) to Wright (Parkland security) to Johnsen (SS) to Rowley (SS Chief) to Todd (FBI agent) to Frazier (FBI lab main investigator) Stone’s film has David Mantik giving this time line and he says that there are multiple documents showing Frazier’s signature as having received this bullet at 7:30 PM. Is the FBI lab located in the White House? ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/208 "2023-11-28T19:50:09Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Todd finally delivers the bullet to FBI special agent Robert A. Frazier, a firearms and ballistics examiner, at the Bureau’s Crime Lab. Both [Todd and Frazier put their initials](https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57689#relPageId=97&search=todd_and%20initials) on the spent bullet. briefer version: there are multiple attestations in Stone’s film that Frazier received the bullet (or a bullet) from Todd at 7:30 PM, and at least one memo appears on screen with the time written after “Evidence received from Special Agent Elmer L. Todd, Washington Field Office of the FBI, 11/22/1963: 7:30 PM” (This memo is the one headed “FBI laboratory work sheet”) ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/209 "2023-11-28T19:52:30Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > A memo (which appears on screen in Stone’s film at about the 20 minute mark) gives the time that Todd delivered the bullet to the lab (Robert Frazier, lab technician) as 7:30 PM. How can Todd give a bullet he received at 8:50 PM to the lab an hour and twenty minutes earlier? Frazier wrote down the wrong time when he was preparing to testify to the WC. Otherwise, a bullet was documented as going from Johnsen to Rowley to Todd at the White House, then disappeared because Frazier received a bullet from Todd hours before Todd received the bullet from Rowley. Todd then helpfully wrote down that he received a bullet at 8:50pm, apparently forgetting that he already gave a phony bullet to Frazier a couple hours earlier. Hold on, if the stretcher bullet was the phony one, why would Todd be giving Frazier a different phony one? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/210 "2023-11-28T19:57:32Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > OK, first place, what significance if any do you attach to the attestation in that note “It could not be determined who had used this stretcher or if President Kennedy had occupied it”? That this one agent (who was taught to memorialize his activities) hadn’t done a complete investigation. He also spelled a bunch of words wrong. He was likely quite distraught. The Warren Commission, of course, did do so. So we have the benefit of the statements of other people to fill in these gaps. > [@slicedalone](#): > > To me, it sounds like the first link in this chain of custody could have been planted, at worst, or switched out, to begin with. “Hey, Bubba, we’re gonna need some bullets to prove stuff. Ya got anything that we could stick on a stretcher while things are still confusing and there are still secret service agents hanging around? Yeah, that looks good–oh, any old stretcher will do, just do it fast.” So do the rest of the work, and explain how planting a bullet (when the shooters would have no idea what the forensic evidence is going to reveal) going to _help_ “prove stuff”. Prove _what_, exactly? (It sounds to me like planting fake evidence is only going to encourage further investigation, which these canny assassins wouldn’t want) > [@slicedalone](#): > > A memo (which appears on screen in Stone’s film at about the 20 minute mark) gives the time that Todd delivered the bullet to the lab (Robert Frazier, lab technician) as 7:30 PM. Show it. These documents are indexed online. You’re obviously invested enough to participate in this thread and watch some movie. So bring the evidence so we can look at it. Like I did. > [@slicedalone](#): > > Stone’s film has David Mantik giving this time line and he says that there are multiple documents showing Frazier’s signature as having received this bullet at 7:30 PM. Is the FBI lab located in the White House? Show them. I don’t take the word of some dude who just said so. Why do you, when you should already be acknowledging the falsehoods that are being peddled? It was asked earlier. Do you still claim the bullet was pristine? ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/211 "2023-11-28T20:00:08Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Hold on, if the stretcher bullet was the phony one, why would Todd be giving Frazier a different phony one? Beats me. Oh, another innocent error, this one on Frazier’s part? Gosh, these government agents are awful sloppy in their note-taking, note-keeping, recording of vital facts etc. But it’s OK because the WC doesn;t mind an error here, a mistake there, a goof here–it’s all good. The important thing is the facts all add up to one simple narrative, amirite, fellas? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/212 "2023-11-28T20:18:45Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > Oh, another innocent error, this one on Frazier’s part? One Error by One Person. One person marked the wrong time in his notes, and those notes were relied upon by himself and others later on. Not “another error by another person” just one. When you account for that one error, there is no broken chain of custody, no second bullet forgotten or deliberately hidden by SS or FBI agents, just one bullet taken from a stretcher, handed to responsible people until it gets to the FBI lab. I’m still waiting for your plausible story of what actually happened. So far I have a story with “Bubba” who happens to be carrying bullets fired from the rifle found at the Book Depository, is that the one you’re going with? ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/213 "2023-11-28T20:58:41Z")
I feel in no way obliged to compose a narrative that explains the events more completely than the deeply flawed WC Report does, merely to point out its numerous errors, omissions, and sloppiness. Give me a year to compose a non-fiction version, and the budget allotted to the WC and I might take it under advisement. I do, however, promise to hire a proofreader with that enormous budget to vet my final report carefully for implausibilities in the narrative I will invent. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/214 "2023-11-28T21:21:55Z")
So… you need a year, a budget, and a proofreader to come up with a plausible narrative for how one bullet got into evidence with the recorded times being inconsistent. Not to prove it, just to construct a narrative that isn’t ridiculous. Because you don’t like “guy wrote down the wrong number” as an answer. THAT seems less likely to you than a series of events so complicated you can’t even trust yourself to keep the timeline straight. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/215 "2023-11-28T21:23:18Z")
Uh, I don’t work for you. Not sure where you got the idea that I’ll jump when you say “Frog.” ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/216 "2023-11-28T21:24:05Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > I feel in no way obliged to compose a narrative that explains the events more completely than the deeply flawed WC Report does Because you can’t > [@slicedalone](#): > > merely to point out its numerous errors, omissions, and sloppiness. You haven’t done that yet. You do realize that even if you find errors or sloppiness in documents, you haven’t undermined the commission’s reports, right? The raw data isn’t polished, unless it’s fabricated. > [@slicedalone](#): > > I do, however, promise to hire a proofreader with that enormous budget to vet my final report carefully for implausibilities in the narrative I will invent. So you will suppress evidence that doesn’t jive with your official narrative? Because a real investigation is **never** that clean. I mean, do you impose this standard elsewhere in your life? If somebody tells you it takes them “20 minutes to get across town”, do you start drawing maps and plot points to determine if might actually take 30 minutes, and if you do then do you confidently proclaim them to be a proven liar, and a suspect in any imagined escapade that could be schemed in those missing 10 minutes? Or do you recognize that people don’t think and act so absurdly precise as this? ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/217 "2023-11-28T21:26:59Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Because you can’t “Nah nah, na na, NAH na” is not a great debate. > [@Moriarty](#): > > You haven’t done that yet. Yet. > [@Moriarty](#): > > You do realize that even if you find errors or sloppiness in documents, you haven’t undermined the commission’s reports, right? The raw data isn’t polished, unless it’s fabricated. So, again, the sloppier i can show the WC Report to be, the stronger their case appears to you? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/218 "2023-11-28T21:42:41Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > Uh, I don’t work for you. I’m trying to have a conversation. I’m not asking for proof, just what you think went on that day, just for this one item, an event that you have clearly thought about before. This request isn’t unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/219 "2023-11-28T21:44:43Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > So, again, the sloppier i can show the WC Report to be, the stronger their case appears to you? If the conspiracy was sloppy, it’s highly unlikely that it would have held up this long. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643/220 "2023-11-28T21:48:50Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > Nah nah, na na, NAH na” is not a great debate. Evading obvious logical issues with your claim is not a debate at all. > [@slicedalone](#): > > Yet When come back, bring arguments. > [@slicedalone](#): > > the sloppier i can show the WC Report to be, the stronger their case appears to you? You haven’t shown it to be sloppy. You’ve shown _Oliver Stone_ to be sloppy. But I don’t think you’ve meant to do that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-lee-h-oswald/993643.md?page=12)