# The case against Mother Theresa **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194 "2010-02-23T23:47:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/181 "2010-02-28T18:14:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Her vow of poverty was a joke, by the way. She spent most of her time outside India, flying in private jets, and living in luxury accomodations. Maybe you don’t know what a vow of poverty really is, you don’t own anything, that’s all. If someone wants to buy you a $100 meal it is OK. What you say is meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/182 "2010-02-28T18:16:58Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Some can’t take pain killers because even a small amount would kill them. I was in the health care field for many years, and this didn’t sound right to me. I just asked my wife for her opinion (she’s a Nurse Practitioner) and here’s her response: That statement is completely untrue. A professional who is educated in pain management should be able to manage a patients symptoms without killing them. It is an art and a science. Many things are taken into consideration when prescribing, such as the patient’s renal function, prior pain medication use and the type of pain they are experiencing. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/183 "2010-02-28T18:17:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is too silly a question to require an answer. > Yes. > She advocated making it illegal for women to be able to leave abusive husbands. Why a silly question, do you think people are either all good or all bad. Black or white again. The real world is not like that, there are numerous shades of gray in everyone. The Catholic church has always advocated no divorce. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/184 "2010-02-28T18:22:55Z")
I don’t think Mother Teresa was all bad. I just think she wasn’t a saint, and that her reputation is overrated. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/185 "2010-02-28T19:09:28Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Your quote is by Sanal Edamaruku, one person, a rationalist, euphemism for atheism, a person with an agenda. Just BS So you discount the person’s testimony just because they are an atheist? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/186 "2010-02-28T19:14:16Z")
Have you met **lekatt**? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/187 "2010-02-28T19:16:46Z")
I have. But, several posters in this thread have not. I want to make things clear for them. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/188 "2010-02-28T20:09:53Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > I was in the health care field for many years, and this didn’t sound right to me. I just asked my wife for her opinion (she’s a Nurse Practitioner) and here’s her response: > > That statement is completely untrue. A professional who is educated in pain management should be able to manage a patients symptoms without killing them. It is an art and a science. Many things are taken into consideration when prescribing, such as the patient’s renal function, prior pain medication use and the type of pain they are experiencing. You really think where Mother Teresa was with no doctors or nurses this matters. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/189 "2010-02-28T20:14:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t think Mother Teresa was all bad. I just think she wasn’t a saint, and that her reputation is overrated. Well, can you give me the definition of a saint, do they have halos or wings? She lessened the suffering of thousands of poor people no one cared about. I say she did good. Now let them who is without sin cast the first stone. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/190 "2010-02-28T20:18:05Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > She lessened the suffering of thousands of poor people no one cared about. . That unsupported assertion you just made is exactly the point that is under debate in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/191 "2010-02-28T20:23:08Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > So you discount the person’s testimony just because they are an atheist? I am glad you asked that question. I discount the testimony of any person with an agenda no matter what they profess. I don’t care if you are an atheist, just don’t let it color your judgement. I have an atheist friend that don’t go around with the atheist chip on his shoulder. That is the way it should be. Being an atheist don’t make you unhappy, anxious, or depressed, any more than being a theist. But whatever you carry inside you comes out, if you carry love then the love comes out, etc. I don’t know why atheists think they have to down everything religious, makes no sense to me. If a person is happy, peaceful, and contented with the path they have chosen, then why is it necessary to bash others? You tell me. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/192 "2010-02-28T20:25:39Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > That unsupported assertion you just made is exactly the point that is under debate in this thread. Unsupported? A Nobel Prize winner, hundreds of books and articles about her self sacrifices, tens of thousands of Indians mourned her passing and you say unsupported? Geesh. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/193 "2010-02-28T20:25:58Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I don’t care if you are an atheist, Then why did you mention it in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/194 "2010-02-28T20:31:25Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Unsupported? A Nobel Prize winner, As pointed out, Arafat also won a Noble prize. > [@](#): > > hundreds of books and articles about her self sacrifices, With so much to choose from, it should be an easy matter to provide a proper cite. > [@](#): > > tens of thousands of Indians mourned her passing and you say unsupported? Geesh. Hey, Arafat had millions mourn for him too. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/195 "2010-02-28T20:47:37Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > You really think where Mother Teresa was with no doctors or nurses this matters. You wrote something about hospices and pain management that my wife, a trained professional, could weigh in on and tell you that you’re wrong. Correcting bullshit is part of what this site’s about. It seemed more apropos since you were telling someone else that they knew nothing about hospices and were passing yourself off as an expert because you “worked at one.” Again, as other keep having to remind you, part of this thread is determining whether or not she had the money to pay for appropriate pain relief. Since others have shown that she did and that she admitted that the suffering was good, I’ve got enough information to form a conclusion. Since you’re still claiming that you don’t, you’ve proven that not only atheists can have agendas. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/196 "2010-02-28T20:58:49Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > That seems an illlogical snipe. The questionableness of your cites isn’t being claimed to be based on them being in Spanish, but rather, that the English cite you provided turned out to be inaccurate. The Spanish cites can’t be checked by a non-Spanish reader, but that’s not what makes them questionable, it’s what makes them difficult to check. > > Honestly, it doesn’t seem particularly reasonable to supply cites in a language that others don’t understand and then consider the burden of proof to have shifted to them, regardless of the widespread nature of the language in question. No, that’s not what he said. He said _“No, you made the assertion. You back it up. You do your own work.The one English cite you provided did not prove what you claimed it did. Why should I believe your Spanish cites are any better?”_. The English cite was a list of houses (which, apparently serve the public good less than open sewers do) and the Spanich ones are claimed to be unworthy of checking, because the English one wasn’t to his liking. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/197 "2010-02-28T21:02:07Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > The English cite was a list of houses (which, apparently serve the public good less than open sewers do)[ A list of houses is not proof that do anything, other than exist. > [@](#): > > and the Spanich ones are claimed to be unworthy of checking, because the English one wasn’t to his liking. If your English cite was good, I could have seen my going the extra mile and getting your Spanish cites translated. It wasn’t. So, I didn’t. **Diogenes** ’ points are still valid. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/198 "2010-03-01T04:51:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You’ve seen it often spelled WRONG. > > The difference is that there is a right way and wrong way, and it’s just as easy to get it right. You are mistaken. Mother Teresa was from the Ottoman Empire/Albania/Yugoslavia/Macedonia (the regimes and borders kept changing) and her name is translated from Cyrillic script. Like other names translated from other languages/alphabets (Mao Zedong, Moammar Gadhafi, etc.) there is some flexibility in transliterating it into English. “Teresa” is the usual spelling, but the “correct” spelling is debatable. If you’d sent her a check to “Mother Theresa,” by all indication she would have cashed it. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/199 "2010-03-01T05:02:47Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > No, that’s not what he said. He said _“No, you made the assertion. You back it up. You do your own work.The one English cite you provided did not prove what you claimed it did. Why should I believe your Spanish cites are any better?”_. So far as I can tell, that quote entirely backs up my interpretation. > [@](#): > > The English cite was a list of houses (which, apparently serve the public good less than open sewers do) and the Spanich ones are claimed to be unworthy of checking, because the English one wasn’t to his liking. If they were simply unworthy of checking, then I would be on your side in this. One cite considered unimpressive does not mean all other cites don’t even need to be looked at. The problem is, so far as I can tell, the recipient in this case can’t read Spanish. So it’s not simply a matter of checking them as it is with the English source, it’s a matter of translating them to a good standard, which at the very least requires more of an effort. If, as seems reasonable here, there are likely to be other cites in English, and if the person giving the cites understands English themselves, and if the one cite in English doesn’t bode particularly impressively for the others, it seems reasonable to me to ask for other cites which are in English. The whole point of a cite is that it backs up your argument sufficiently for the person you’re arguing with. It doesn’t matter that _you_ believe it or read it, because you’re already convinced. You want to convince others; and that, in this case, appears to mean supplying cites in languages they can read, just as it requires supplying cites they can find no bias with or cites that are relevant to the topic at hand. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194/200 "2010-03-01T05:10:17Z")
It wasn’t transliterated from anything. She chose the name after a saint. It wasn’t actually her Albanian name. Her official Church Title is “Blessed Teresa of Calcutta,” by the way. And since it is a church title, and not her actual name, the Church’s spelling is definitive. “Theresa” is wrong. It’s pointless to dispute that. Just acknowledge the correction and move on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-against-mother-theresa/530194.md?page=11)