# The case for Hillary Clinton 2020
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [November 24, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607 "2017-11-24T17:43:07Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 7
### Author:  [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/122 "2017-11-28T16:14:45Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#):
>
> I agree. The venom people aim at Clinton is all out of proportion with her actual words, deeds, and personality traits.
>
> So great a degree of loathing is an unmistakable clue that pure logic and reason are not at work, here.
>
> Though I agree that there was a strain of “I’m mad as hell” in 2016 voting, there was as large or larger a strain of “I want my country back.”
>
> And “I want my country back” was pure racism. Bernie may not have been the choice of the majority of black and Hispanic voters—but he sure as hell was not going to go down the dog-whistle white supremacist road that Trump traveled from his very first press conference.
>
> Bernie would never have won over the “I want my country back” voters. They were enthralled by Trump’s plausibly-deniable racism. Bernie’s anti-corporation message was not attractive enough to lead those voters to choose it over Trump’s white-supremacism.
I believe that it was exactly this type of philosophy and mindset that helped elect Trump. I was one of many who talked to Trump supporters I knew during the primaries with the belief that there was no way he could be nominated, let alone get elected. And they were mostly working class white people who, mistakenly or not, believed that Trump was talking to them for a change, and no other Republican or Democrat was. (I understand that it’s hard to believe that white me feel they have been left behind but many do.)
But the constant drum beat of “if you’re not voting for Hillary you’re either a moron, a life long sexist or a card carrying KKK member,” was too condescending in an east coast establishment way, and that drum was beat for far too long for many that ultimately chose not to vote for Clinton. I was one of those.
You can talk Russians all you want. But the “irredeemable" quote was viewed as a core belief by Clinton and many in the party, not as just a slip of the tongue.
Or as a friend of mind told me “If only one more person would have told me how stupid and racist I am maybe I would have voted for Hillary said no voter ever.”
This condescension isn’t the way to win an election. And a repeat of this will just get the American more of the same.
---
### Author:  [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/123 "2017-11-28T16:21:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> “Probably”? I think that seriously understates the case.
>
> As a rule, primary voters (on both sides) are more partisan and more extreme that the electorate in general. Hence the tendency to run back to the middle after getting the nom. A socialist who cannot muster enough votes to get the nom is not going to muster enough votes to win the general election, even if magic happens and he beats Hillary.
>
> Not to mention that (per Wiki) and
>
> [Cite](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/02/19/entrenched-anti-semitic-views-very-rare-among-whites-and-asian-americans-common-among-blacks-and-latinos/?utm_term=.90d29f134058).
>
> Hillary lost in part because she didn’t turn out the black vote. Sanders is even less likely to have done so.
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
Wonder of wonders miracles of miracles I agree 100% with Shodan.
---
### Author:  [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/124 "2017-11-28T16:33:22Z")
> [@spifflog](#):
>
> I believe that it was exactly this type of philosophy and mindset that helped elect Trump. I was one of many who talked to Trump supporters I knew during the primaries with the belief that there was no way he could be nominated, let alone get elected. And they were mostly working class white people who, mistakenly or not, believed that Trump was talking to them for a change, and no other Republican or Democrat was. (I understand that it’s hard to believe that white me feel they have been left behind but many do.)
They voted for a guy because who sounded angry and said f#ck the system, which mirrored how they felt. It’s not that we don’t understand it - we understand it well. But I’m not going to forgive someone who knowingly votes for a person who used racist themes to win their votes. I don’t care at this point whether I persuade them or not because frankly, we’re past the point of no return. We’re talking as if we can just walk this one back or do this one over – we can’t. The damage that will be done as a result of their middle finger vote is setting into a motion a sequence of events that will have a massive impact on everyone’s welfare for decades to come. The only thing that will change this country is for the country collectively to experience the results of this unfolding disaster. Hopefully by the time we have this collective awakening, there are still democratic means of effectuating positive change.
---
### Author:  [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/125 "2017-11-28T16:38:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Who would have won vs Trump- backed by Rove, the GOP and the Kremlin? Not Bernie, certainly.
On that note, a popular theory floating in pundit space is that Putin worked with Trump to throttle Hillary and that he wouldn’t have been so eager to do so had Bernie or another Democrat won instead of Hillary, who had already made her distaste for Putin known.
That’s not very plausible, because Sanders most likely would have taken a position against Putin’s aggressive eastern European foreign policy for one thing. But for another, Putin had a broader more general goal, and that was to sow discord and division in the United States domestically and to encourage other countries to resist America’s political virtual hegemony- countries like Turkey, like Iran, like Cuba, like the Philippines. This is why Putin is encouraging nationalism and anti-globalism in Europe. He was tired of playing globalism by America’s rules and was determined to weaken the system. It mattered none who got elected last year. It’s just that Trump has the added benefit of being easily blackmailed and manipulated, which is another strike against Sanders.
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### Author:  [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/126 "2017-11-28T16:51:10Z")
> [@asahi](#):
>
> The damage that will be done as a result of their middle finger vote is setting into a motion a sequence of events that will have a massive impact on everyone’s welfare for decades to come. The only thing that will change this country is for the country collectively to experience the results of this unfolding disaster. Hopefully by the time we have this collective awakening, there are still democratic means of effectuating positive change.
Hyperbole doesn’t help either.
If you don’t care that this portion of the campaign was counterproductive than so be it. But then we’ll be back to that well worn definition of insanity in three years. I’d rather adjust to what didn’t work and get the President that I feel is better for the country. But heh, maybe your plan will make you feel smarter when you lose again.
---
### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/127 "2017-11-28T16:57:38Z")
> [@asahi](#):
>
> … I’m not going to forgive …
Have Trump voters been asking you for forgiveness?
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/128 "2017-11-28T17:22:39Z")
It isn’t required. Forgiveness is for the forgiver, not the forgiven.
But yes, Trumpgret is a thing.
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### Author:  [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/129 "2017-11-28T18:01:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> Have Trump voters been asking you for forgiveness?
Probably not. Like terrorists, many are proud of the damage they caused— the more, the better— and don’t care who gets hurt.
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### Author:  [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/130 "2017-11-28T18:16:50Z")
> [@asahi](#):
>
> On that note, a popular theory floating in pundit space is that Putin worked with Trump to throttle Hillary and that he wouldn’t have been so eager to do so had Bernie or another Democrat won instead of Hillary, who had already made her distaste for Putin known.
>
> That’s not very plausible, because Sanders most likely would have taken a position against Putin’s aggressive eastern European foreign policy for one thing. But for another, Putin had a broader more general goal, and that was to sow discord and division in the United States domestically and to encourage other countries to resist America’s political virtual hegemony- countries like Turkey, like Iran, like Cuba, like the Philippines. This is why Putin is encouraging nationalism and anti-globalism in Europe. He was tired of playing globalism by America’s rules and was determined to weaken the system. It mattered none who got elected last year. It’s just that Trump has the added benefit of being easily blackmailed and manipulated, which is another strike against Sanders.
Yes indeed. I wonder if the next step would be to exploit secessionist movements. Or would that be counterproductive to Russian interests?
---
### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/131 "2017-11-28T18:41:12Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#):
>
> Probably not. Like terrorists, many are proud of the damage they caused— the more, the better— and don’t care who gets hurt.
That’s the spirit. If calling them “deplorable” and “dumb” wasn’t enough to convince them to vote the way you wanted, try saying they’re “like terrorists”, that’ll work out well. :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/132 "2017-11-28T18:55:06Z")
When you say “Racists are deplorable”, and half the country responds by saying “How dare you call me deplorable!”, what does that say? Yes, racists are deplorable, and if you don’t want to be called deplorable, then you shouldn’t be racist. And if you’re already not racist, then what are you taking offense at?
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### Author:  [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/133 "2017-11-28T18:55:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> That’s the spirit. If calling them “deplorable” and “dumb” wasn’t enough to convince them to vote the way you wanted, try saying they’re “like terrorists”, that’ll work out well. :rolleyes:
Well I’m not going to kneel in deference or kiss their MAGA hats or anything like that. If they disapprove of insults they sure voted for the wrong guy then, he insults people almost as often as he breathes, but his supporters clutch their pearls if a libtard dares insult them? Please. What’s the saying about dishing it out and not being able to take it in return?
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/134 "2017-11-28T19:20:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> When you say “Racists are deplorable”, and half the country responds by saying “How dare you call me deplorable!”, what does that say? Yes, racists are deplorable, and if you don’t want to be called deplorable, then you shouldn’t be racist. And if you’re already not racist, then what are you taking offense at?
That Clinton didn’t say “racists are deplorable”. She said “half of Trump’s supporters” are:
> [@](#):
>
> You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables.
---
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/135 "2017-11-28T19:23:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> That Clinton didn’t say “racists are deplorable”. She said “half of Trump’s supporters” are:
You took that out of context:" \*“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?” Clinton said. “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”
-
So, yes, she said racists are deplorable.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/136 "2017-11-28T19:23:38Z")
That was in [the very next phrase](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basket_of_deplorables), which you oddly are omitting.
> [@](#):
>
> You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of **deplorables**. (Laughter/applause) **Right?** (Laughter/applause) **They’re racist,** sexist, homophobic, xenophobic — Islamophobic — you name it. And unfortunately, there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people — now have 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks — they are irredeemable, but thankfully, they are not America.
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### Author:  [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/137 "2017-11-28T19:24:25Z")
It seems like Trump supporters are allergic to context or something.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/138 "2017-11-28T19:27:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> … So, yes, she said racists are deplorable.
No, she didn’t. At best she said something along the lines of ‘half of Trump supporters are deplorable, and racist.’ Can you understand how that’s quite a bit of a different kettle of fish than the hypothetical offered earlier?
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> When you say “Racists are deplorable”, and half the country responds by saying “How dare you call me deplorable!” …
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/139 "2017-11-28T19:31:00Z")
nevermind
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### Author:  [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/140 "2017-11-28T19:31:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> That’s the spirit. If calling them “deplorable” and “dumb” wasn’t enough to convince them to vote the way you wanted, try saying they’re “like terrorists”, that’ll work out well. :rolleyes:
I’ll leave the bootlicking duties to the professional toadies; it’s never been my strong suit. I have a strict policy of not negotiating with Trumpists.
---
### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/141 "2017-11-28T19:35:03Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#):
>
> I’ll leave the bootlicking duties to the professional toadies; it’s never been my strong suit. I have a strict policy of not negotiating with Trumpists.
I’m not suggesting boot-licking, or even negotiations. But is some minimal level of civility outside of your strong suit as well?
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