# The case for Hillary Clinton 2020
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [November 24, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607 "2017-11-24T17:43:07Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/142 "2017-11-28T19:46:04Z")
Yes, Clinton insulted about half of Trump’s supporters. That’s obviously not why they voted the way they did, though, because Trump insulted all of them, far more frequently than Clinton did.
Besides which, if someone described some group that I was a member of, and said that half of them were racist, sexist, or had some other deplorable trait, I wouldn’t say “How dare you call me that!?”. I’d say “Well, I’m in the other half”. The people who were offended by Clinton’s statement weren’t offended at being called racist; they were offended that she was saying that there’s anything wrong with being racist.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/143 "2017-11-28T19:51:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> … The people who were offended by Clinton’s statement weren’t offended at being called racist; they were offended that she was saying that there’s anything wrong with being racist.
I don’t think that’s the least bit accurate, but I’m curious how you reached that conclusion.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/144 "2017-11-28T19:54:17Z")
From their response, of course. It wasn’t to the words “racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic — Islamophobic — you name it” but to “deplorable”. Even you didn’t know that until just now.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/145 "2017-11-28T19:58:30Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> From their response, of course. It wasn’t to the words “racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic — Islamophobic — you name it” but to “deplorable”. Even you didn’t know that until just now.
You make some silly assumptions about what I didn’t know.
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### Author:  [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/146 "2017-11-28T19:58:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> I’m not suggesting boot-licking, or even negotiations. But is some minimal level of civility outside of your strong suit as well?
If I’m curt with you, it’s because global nuclear annihilation is a factor. So pretty please, with sugar on top, don’t vote for the fucking lunatic.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/147 "2017-11-28T20:00:14Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#):
>
> If I’m curt with you, it’s because global nuclear annihilation is a factor. So pretty please, with sugar on top, don’t vote for the fucking lunatic.
I felt that global nuclear annihilation would have been far likelier under Clinton than Trump. Still do, in fact.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/148 "2017-11-28T20:06:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> You make some silly assumptions about what I didn’t know.
That was based on your odd editing of the full quote, so odd that it appeared you weren’t aware of any more of it, or maybe didn’t care.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/149 "2017-11-28T20:06:59Z")
Maybe what we need is a Civility Mod? Wander freely through the fora, scolding and admonishing any lack of genteel civility! Well, that’s settled then, now…nominations?
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/150 "2017-11-28T20:08:42Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> That was based on your odd editing of the full quote, so odd that it appeared you weren’t aware of any more of it, or maybe didn’t care.
I quoted the portion of it that I felt illustrated my point that she said “half of Trump’s supporters” are deplorable. The rest of it makes it worse, not better, as I pointed out in post #137.
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### Author:  [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/151 "2017-11-28T20:09:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> When you say “Racists are deplorable”, and half the country responds by saying “How dare you call me deplorable!”, what does that say? Yes, racists are deplorable, and if you don’t want to be called deplorable, then you shouldn’t be racist. And if you’re already not racist, then what are you taking offense at?
It was worse than that, actually. I noticed that many Trump supporters just laughed it off. _“Go ahead, call me racist - I don’t care. Calling me racist doesn’t work anymore.”_
What that really means is, “It’s okay to be a racist now.” Now that a black man has been elected president, people no longer have a right to complain about racism. Because the election of Barack Obama just proves America’s not a racist country. :rolleyes: Or more accurately, the Obama era just gives bigots a reason to validate the fear peddling to the white middle class.
My sense among the Trump side of the electorate was a palpable fear that the country might not be able to elect another white male president (the archetypal American president after all) for the foreseeable future.
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### Author:  [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/152 "2017-11-28T20:12:50Z")
> [@octopus](#):
>
> Yes indeed. I wonder if the next step would be to exploit secessionist movements. Or would that be counterproductive to Russian interests?
That would be a dangerous step for Russia to take, as they are quite vulnerable to their own secessionist movements. But helping a candidate who is destroying faith in our own country’s intelligence apparatus is YUGELY helpful to the likes of Russia and other possible adversaries. Putin’s m.o. is to engender doubt, to use political judo and to use the strengths of an adversary and to turn them into their weakness.
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### Author:  [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/153 "2017-11-28T20:14:09Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> I felt that global nuclear annihilation would have been far likelier under Clinton than Trump. Still do, in fact.
_ahem_ “Rocket man”
He’s conducting foreign policy via half cocked tweet with a person as deranged and narcissistic as he is. Truly mind boggling that you can still hold on to this idea that Clinton would more likely lead us to nuclear war.
This is why so many conservatives in Alabama are about to vote for a child molester over a Democrat. They’ve been programmed to think of liberals/progressives/Democrats as the worst thing a person can be. There is no possibility of rational discourse with people that actually think you are worse than a child molester.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/154 "2017-11-28T20:22:45Z")
> [@Airbeck](#):
>
> _ahem_ “Rocket man”
>
> He’s conducting foreign policy via half cocked tweet with a person as deranged and narcissistic as he is. Truly mind boggling that you can still hold on to this idea that Clinton would more likely lead us to nuclear war.
>
> This is why so many conservatives in Alabama are about to vote for a child molester over a Democrat. They’ve been programmed to think of liberals/progressives/Democrats as the worst thing a person can be. There is no possibility of rational discourse with people that actually think you are worse than a child molester.
I’m curious to know: do you have any idea why a conservative might feel that “global nuclear annihilation would have been far likelier under Clinton than Trump”? Reaching back into your memory banks, can you recall anything someone said that might have left people with that impression, or is it really and truly a mystery to you?
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/155 "2017-11-28T20:27:56Z")
> [@](#):
>
> … I have a strict policy of not negotiating with Trumpists.
Well OK, when we have the camps set up for Muslims and homos…if some Muslims claim religious objection, should they be separate camps? Wouldn’t that mean that Muslims actually _have_ a religion?
Also, “duck season” is ok, so is “rabbit season”, but “hippy season” is _right out_. Agreed?
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/156 "2017-11-28T20:30:55Z")
Furthermore, are these two phrases synonymous in your mind?
> [@VinylTurnip](#):
>
> … global nuclear annihilation …
> [@Airbeck](#):
>
> … nuclear war …
Or do they occupy distinct locations on the spectrum of terrible things that could happen?
Assuming, for a moment, that perhaps they are not synonymous in your vocabulary like they are not in mine, which countries do you think possess the capability of initiating the latter but not the former? Would North Korea perhaps be on that list? And which country/countries have the arsenal necessary to initiate the former?
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/157 "2017-11-28T20:35:33Z")
Didn’t know it was possible to nitpick in terms of mega-deaths. And yet, here it is.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/158 "2017-11-28T20:38:17Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> Didn’t know it was possible to nitpick in terms of mega-deaths. And yet, here it is.
it’s only a difference of several billion lives, maybe an order of magnitude (or two or three).
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/159 "2017-11-28T20:41:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> it’s only a difference of several billion lives, maybe an order of magnitude (or two or three).
Are you saying that you think Trump is more likely to get us into a small nuclear war, but Clinton was more likely to get us into a big one?
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### Author:  [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/160 "2017-11-28T20:45:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> I’m curious to know: do you have any idea why a conservative might feel that “global nuclear annihilation would have been far likelier under Clinton than Trump”? Reaching back into your memory banks, can you recall anything someone said that might have left people with that impression, or is it really and truly a mystery to you?
Because conservative media told them to feel that way?
I’m guessing you are going for the “no fly zone” thing. I know that was hyped to no end by the right wing. I don’t buy that her talking tough about figuring out a way to deal with Syria to help with the refugee problem and instability in the region is worse than two deranged narcissists conducting foreign policy via “I know you are but what am I” type of third grade playground insults. For Christ’s sake he told Tillerson that there was no reason to negotiate with North Korea, that the Secretary of State was wasting time trying to talk to them.
Cite: [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/01/us/politics/trump-tillerson-north-korea.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/01/us/politics/trump-tillerson-north-korea.html)
> [@](#):
>
> “I told Rex Tillerson, our wonderful Secretary of State, that he is wasting his time trying to negotiate with Little Rocket Man,” Mr. Trump wrote on Twitter, using the derogatory nickname he has assigned to Kim Jong-un, the North Korean leader. “Save your energy Rex,” he added, “we’ll do what has to be done!”
So you were concerned that Clinton’s foreign policy ideas would upset Russia. I didn’t realize that we make our national decisions based on what Russia wants.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-for-hillary-clinton-2020/802607/161 "2017-11-28T20:48:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> Are you saying that you think Trump is more likely to get us into a small nuclear war, but Clinton was more likely to get us into a big one?
I’m saying I think she was much more likely to get us into a big nuclear war with Russia than Trump is, and that the consequences for that are significantly more severe than a war with North Korea with their relatively small and unsophisticated nuclear weapon capabilities.
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