# The Case of the Missing Editor/Proofreader. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 22, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243 "2015-09-22T21:28:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Brodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Brodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brodi)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/1 "2015-09-22T21:28:09Z")
Has anyone else read a book where you wonder where the F was the proofreader/editor? Mine is a book I checked out from the library called **The Utterly, Completely, and Totally Useless History Fact-O-Pedia**. The title fits it perfectly.:rolleyes: From a section on Catherine of Aragon: > [@](#): > > Catherine ( **1458** -1536) was petite with long, golden-auburn hair, wide blue eyes, a round face and a fair complexion. The author then goes on to say: > [@](#): > > Catherine died on January 7, 1536 at the age of **50**. In reality, Catherine of Aragon was born in **1485** and did indeed die in 1536, at the age of 51. The book also contains contains weirdly worded sentences (“Dresdon, Germany, was a crucial commercial and transportation center in Germany at the time of the bombings during WWll, in 1945”) and really subjective “facts” (“Cleo(patra) wasn’t the easiest on the eyes. According to historians, she was short and portly with a long hooked nose and a thick neck.”) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/2 "2015-09-22T21:43:59Z")
A chap I know put his first book up on Amazon. Unedited. He was wise enough to listen to me when I offered to go over it. I identified more than 1,000 (!) errors, the vast majority of them misuses of commas and (ugh) semicolons. (He used commas where either semicolons or separation into two distinct sentences would be more appropriate, over three hundred times.) People should not embarrass themselves in public that way. (With respect to Gaudere’s Law, posts on a discussion board don’t count! 😃 ) ETA: In a completely different book, there was the line, “The Amazons were practically born to the saddle from birth.” Ye cats, how does something that awkward get publsihed? ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/3 "2015-09-22T21:55:06Z")
I read a lot of free books from sources like Smashwords (via Nook store). So, yes, on a regular basis. Some of them even thank their editors at the beginning, but I’m left wondering how much the editor did, or how much they were listened to. My wife kindly pointed some issues to her latest favorite author and is now a volunteer editor for future books. I’ve done a little self-publishing myself, though, so I know how hard it is to squash all of the bugs that crop up in a few hundred pages of writing. I keep a copy of one of my books around so that I can highlight things every time I or someone else notices an issue. If I ever do another edition, I’ll have lots of changes. (To be fair to me, some of these are not outright wrong. Some are just more clear, less awkward, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/4 "2015-09-22T22:07:13Z")
Even major books by name authors from the big houses no longer (necessarily) go through all the editing and proofing steps that used to be routine. They are more likely to go from the author’s Word file to an “editor” (who combines what used to be several steps done by several specialized staffers) to the production department. I can merely sigh and read on for many middle-grade books with childish errors, but when a noted historian publishes an important milestone work with one of the most respected houses in the US, and I can fill up a page with proofreading notes including persistent use of “flare” for “flair”… it’s pretty aggravating. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/5 "2015-09-22T22:25:17Z")
Some very successful authors think their books no longer need editing… ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/6 "2015-09-22T22:30:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Some very successful authors think their books no longer need editing… I think you’re talking mostly about fiction writers, but yes. There’s a rising tide of “self publishing” through Random House et al. - and it shows. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/7 "2015-09-22T22:34:50Z")
This goes back a long way. I just found a 1953 catalog from Gnome Press that misspells two of their titles _on the order page_. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/8 "2015-09-22T22:46:29Z")
I used to adore big books of random facts like that. But now, if I see one, my first thought is to wonder just what percentage of the pages are filled with assertions that even a cursory check of Snopes would reveal to be completely untrue. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/9 "2015-09-22T22:46:43Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > A chap I know put his first book up on Amazon. > > Unedited. > > He was wise enough to listen to me when I offered to go over it. I identified more than 1,000 (!) errors, the vast majority of them misuses of commas and (ugh) semicolons. (He used commas where either semicolons or separation into two distinct sentences would be more appropriate, over three hundred times.) > > People should not embarrass themselves in public that way. > > (With respect to Gaudere’s Law, posts on a discussion board don’t count! 😃 ) > > ETA: In a completely different book, there was the line, “The Amazons were practically born to the saddle from birth.” Ye cats, how does something that awkward get publsihed? Semicolons and dashes do not get nearly the respect they deserve; I find them enormously useful - perhaps to the point of overuse. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/10 "2015-09-22T22:48:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Some very successful authors think their books no longer need editing… So true! There’s a certain British billionaire whose later books (in a series of seven, ;)) contain a lot of things that even _she_ found embarrassing, when they were noticed. But it’s possible that this may _not_ be because she herself thought her work ‘above’ being edited; it may be that those in a position to say “are you sure about this?” felt too intimidated to say it. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/11 "2015-09-22T22:56:50Z")
> [@Brodi](#): > > The author then goes on to say: > > > [@](#): > > > > Catherine died on January 7, 1536 at the age of 50. > > In reality, Catherine of Aragon was born in **1485** and did indeed die in 1536, at the age of 51. Nitpick: she died aged 50 years and 22 days (born in December and died in January). The author did get it right in that sentence. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/12 "2015-09-22T23:01:04Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > This goes back a long way. I just found a 1953 catalog from Gnome Press that misspells two of their titles _on the order page_. Whenever I see people complaining about poor proofreading nowadays, I always wonder when the Golden Age of proofreading was… ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/13 "2015-09-22T23:22:53Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Semicolons and dashes do not get nearly the respect they deserve; I find them enormously useful - perhaps to the point of overuse. ISWYDT A really glaring example was Tom Clancy’s _Rainbow Six_. It was the first one published after his divorce and it was painfully obvious that it had not been proofed. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/14 "2015-09-23T00:22:49Z")
I self-publish on Amazon, I read and reread my stuff to keep typos and bad grammar from getting through, but it’s damned hard even with a spell-checker going full throttle on it. I’ve gotten better, though. When I first self-published I had reviews from people whom I knew liked my stuff (because they said so) chiding me for some spelling and formatting errors. So I went through and re-edited the books that got the chides, even though I knew there wasn’t going to be much money in it short-term. Long-term, the books would not throw off readers who are thrown off by a lot of errors. A lot of bad stuff does get published, but stepping up your game does nothing but good. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/15 "2015-09-23T00:29:57Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > So true! There’s a certain British billionaire whose later books (in a series of seven, ;)) contain a lot of things that even _she_ found embarrassing, when they were noticed. But it’s possible that this may _not_ be because she herself thought her work ‘above’ being edited; it may be that those in a position to say “are you sure about this?” felt too intimidated to say it. In that particular case the real need for editing was story editing. Trimming the fat would have been good, but would have delayed the release which would have cost lots of money. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/16 "2015-09-23T00:31:19Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > This goes back a long way. I just found a 1953 catalog from Gnome Press that misspells two of their titles _on the order page_. When **The Martian Way** appeared in Galaxy they spelled Asimov’s name wrong. I got him to autograph my copy. He was still pissed off about it. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/17 "2015-09-23T01:35:14Z")
A cousin of mine just published her first book. I (former journalist and editor) proofread it, another cousin (English teacher) proofread it, and she hired a professional proofreader. There were at least four obvious mistakes in the final copy. It ain’t as easy as you think. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/18 "2015-09-23T01:47:09Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > A really glaring example was Tom Clancy’s _Rainbow Six_. It was the first one published after his divorce and it was painfully obvious that it had not been proofed. I find this to be true of \*a lot \*of Clancy’s books. About a third of the way through _ **The Sum of All Fears** _, I found a long sentence so convoluted that it literally made no sense, regardless of how I interpreted it. There were some lines in _ **Patriot Games** _ that, while straightforward and grammatically correct, I found to be embarrassingly amateurish. And there were a couple of things in _ **Without Remorse** _ that were either completely wrong factually or didn’t jibe with what he had already established in the story. I can think of examples in other books, but the above should suffice. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/19 "2015-09-23T02:08:01Z")
I had a 25-year career as an editor. Now, I read stuff and think, “Everybody needs an editor.” But they’re not interested in using them, apparently. Printed (meaning online, too) matter has become illiterate. Yet, no one seems to care. Maybe it’s the evolution of communication… or the decline of a literate society. I’m here if anyone needs me. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243/20 "2015-09-23T02:21:03Z")
Well, I bitch about this all the time. I am an editor. Or rather, I used to be. It’s still my title, but it means something completely different now. It means “make sure this author’s WordPerfect 5.1 file can flow nicely into our typesetting program.” It means “please standardize all the subheads and sub-subheads.” (Well, it always meant that, too.) It means, “If you see something awful as you’re going through the manuscript, feel free to change it, but all you really need to do is run spell check.” I’m serious. Run spellcheck. It is to laugh. Oh, and the Word grammar program? Heh-heh-heh. It will helpfully flag every single instance of the word “its” or the word “it’s” just to let you know that hey, sometimes there’s confusion. How about the typo of having “from” for “form,” which is a lot more common? If I run into something that really, truly needs a good copy edit, I make my case to my boss, who consults with, I don’t know, an accountant? And comes back to me and says, “We have okayed 10 hours’ worth.” It’s sad. They used to budget $1500 for the copy edit. Now, in an extreme case, it’s 10 hours. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-the-missing-editor-proofreader/732243.md?page=2)