# The case of Zombie Muhammad vs. the Offended Muslim Guy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 25, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971 "2012-02-25T16:58:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/1 "2012-02-25T16:58:25Z")
Apparently the leader of the Penn branch of American Atheists was in a Halloween parade dressed as “zombie Muhammad”. A Muslim man who was watching the parade took offense and allegedly assaulted the guy as well as calling police because he apparently thought it was illegal to disrespect Muhammad this way. There is now a controversy brewing over whether the judge who handled the case acted appropriately, as the judge apparently dismissed the charges against the Muslim guy and chastised the zombie Muhammad guy for being a “dufus” who went beyond his First Amendment rights. According to American Atheists: > [@](#): > > The Judge neglected to address the fact that the ignorance of the law does not justify an assault and that it was the responsibility of the defendant to familiarize himself with our laws. This is to say nothing of the judge counseling the defendant that it is also not acceptable for him to teach his children that it is acceptable to use violence in the defense of religious beliefs. Instead, the judge gives Mr. Perce a lesson in Sharia law and drones on about the Muslim faith, inform everyone in the court room how strongly he embraces Islam, that the first amendment does not allow anyone ” to piss off other people and other cultures” and he was also insulted by Mr. Perce’s portrayal of Mohammed and the sign he carried. Their depiction of the story is on their blog here: [http://atheists.org/blog/2012/02/22/muslim-attacks-atheist-muslim-judge-dismisses-case-blames-victim](http://atheists.org/blog/2012/02/22/muslim-attacks-atheist-muslim-judge-dismisses-case-blames-victim) Since this case seems to be just now getting mass media attention I don’t know if the situation is entirely as portrayed by AA, but if it is indeed accurate, then I do find it troubling. A frightening number of people seem to think that free speech only applies to speech that they agree with or find acceptable. I believe that it is essential for a free society to protect the expression of views even if they are offensive or unpopular, since what is “offensive” depends entirely on the eye of the beholder. I don’t believe that anyone’s sacred cow should be above criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/2 "2012-02-25T16:59:39Z")
Atheists vs Muslims? Who’s the religious right going to root for? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/3 "2012-02-25T17:05:57Z")
I’d want to see a report on this incident in the mainstream press. I searched the Philadelphia Inquirer’s web site, and got nada. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/4 "2012-02-25T17:06:24Z")
I feel certain I must be missing part of the story. Nothing in the linked to article makes even a bit of sense. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/5 "2012-02-25T17:12:23Z")
> [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](#): > > Atheists vs Muslims? Who’s the religious right going to root for? Hint: not the atheist, because extra protections extended to Islam can also be extended to Christianity. I would also like to see a more complete explanation of what happened here. [Here is some local news coverage.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzGTaEQebfE) While the judge is right that the parader appears to know little about Islam (they don’t claim Muhammad rose from the dead), it does indeed sound like the judge blew it in a big way. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/6 "2012-02-25T17:18:02Z")
Wow. That’s just nuts. Obviously the judge is wrong. But “Parading Atheists” would be a great band name! ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/7 "2012-02-25T17:43:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Hint: not the atheist, because extra protections extended to Islam can also be extended to Christianity. Hint: Religious people would also note that the “generous protections” ladelled out by liberal nitwits are not likely to ever be granted to Christians. Just angry foreigners who might actually kill liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/8 "2012-02-25T17:47:16Z")
I dunno. Religious stuff aside, how uncommon is it to have a battery charge thrown out when no real harm was done to the victim and the attacker was provoked? [Here’s a story](http://news.pinkpaper.com/NewsStory/5184/11/4/2011/Man-acquitted-of-battery-charges-after-spitting-at-Fred-Phelps-daughter.aspx) about a man being acquitted after spitting on one of the Phelps clan, and the article seems to suggest the “highly charged events” played a role in his decision. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/9 "2012-02-25T17:47:52Z")
> [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](#): > > Atheists vs Muslims? Who’s the religious right going to root for? Muslims; atheists are something of the Ultimate Evil. It’s better to kill for the “wrong” religion and uphold Faith in the process than to do good deeds while not following any faith. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/10 "2012-02-25T17:49:16Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Hint: Religious people would also note that the “generous protections” ladelled out by liberal nitwits are not likely to ever be granted to Christians. Yes, that’s how the persecuted-Christianity fantasy goes. In the real world, decisions that gave religions additional protection against offense from skeptics and critics would probably be embraced by a lot of religious people. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/11 "2012-02-25T19:30:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Hint: not the atheist, because extra protections extended to Islam can also be extended to Christianity. Hint, there was a zombie pope as well in a city full of Christians and nobody attacked him. We are a nation full of Christians who support the first amendment. Your comment is without merit. > [@Marley23](#): > > I would also like to see a more complete explanation of what happened here. [Here is some local news coverage.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzGTaEQebfE) While the judge is right that the parader appears to know little about Islam (they don’t claim Muhammad rose from the dead), it does indeed sound like the judge blew it in a big way. tomato/tomoto irrelevance. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/12 "2012-02-25T19:33:27Z")
> [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](#): > > Atheists vs Muslims? Who’s the religious right going to root for? While it may be a bit of a challenge, typically everyone is preferable to atheists. The thinking usually is that believing in something is better than nothing. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/13 "2012-02-25T19:44:01Z")
Yet another incident that points to the ill fit between Islam and the civilized world. We need to let adherents of that religion know that the “justification” that someone made fun of Muhammad, or drew a cartoon of him or burned a Koran is actually ZERO justification. The more we tip-toe around this we imply that that actually do have some justification to commit violence because their widdle feewlings were hurt. Fuck that. Note to Muslims: Welcome to the 21 century. Enjoy yourselves. If you insist on acting like ignorant, atavistic troglodytes, go fuck yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/14 "2012-02-25T19:49:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’d want to see a report on this incident in the mainstream press. Seconded. A story like this practically begs for axe-grinding. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/15 "2012-02-25T19:49:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, that’s how the persecuted-Christianity fantasy goes. In the real world, decisions that gave religions additional protection against offense from skeptics and critics would probably be embraced by a lot of religious people. Wow, what a rewrite of history. Who do you think wrote the 1st Amendment? It specifically separates the government from religion and it backs that up with the freedom to convey one’s opinion, which is what was done by the atheist who was attacked. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/16 "2012-02-25T19:57:05Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Seconded. A story like this practically begs for axe-grinding. yes, we all know what’s going to happen when the story lands in Arabic speaking countries. Love and best wishes will immediately follow. In fact, I’ll go out on a limb and say there will be a public attempt at a Jesus meet-and-greet. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/17 "2012-02-25T20:08:26Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Yet another incident that points to the ill fit between Islam and the civilized world. You really walk around with this thesis in your head. Perhaps you should challenge your thesis and try to spend a little time thinking of all the devout Muslims that live in “the civilized world”. > [@magellan01](#): > > We need to let adherents of that religion know that the “justification” that someone made fun of Muhammad, or drew a cartoon of him or burned a Koran is actually ZERO justification. The more we tip-toe around this we imply that that actually do have some justification to commit violence because their widdle feewlings were hurt. Fuck that. Note to Muslims: Welcome to the 21 century. Enjoy yourselves. If you insist on acting like ignorant, atavistic troglodytes, go fuck yourselves. Vague hatred for a group of people + sporadic new stories about particularly lousy people from that group + make them the representation of that group + some stuff from the bill of rights you heard about = pseudodefender of the 1st amendment. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/18 "2012-02-25T20:14:18Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > You really walk around with this thesis in your head. Perhaps you should challenge your thesis and try to spend a little time thinking of all the devout Muslims that live in “the civilized world”. No need to. While I accept that the majority of Muslims are non-violent, there are too many that have a fantastical idea of an imaginary sphere of untouchability surrounding their religion. If a particular muslim wants to abide by 21st century notions of free speech and what today’s civilized people consider valid justification of violence, we should welcome to with open arms. If not, let’s that him like the throwback ignoramus he is. > [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > YVague hatred for a group of people + sporadic new stories about particularly lousy people from that group + make them the representation of that group + some stuff from the bill of rights you heard about = pseudodefender of the 1st amendment. If this made more sense I might feel compelled to comment on it. As it is, :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/19 "2012-02-25T21:32:04Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > No need to. While I accept that the majority of Muslims are non-violent, there are too many that have a fantastical idea of an imaginary sphere of untouchability surrounding their religion. If a particular muslim wants to abide by 21st century notions of free speech and what today’s civilized people consider valid justification of violence, we should welcome to with open arms. If not, let’s that him like the throwback ignoramus he is. Your original statement was far more broad than this. It started with “Yet another incident that points to the ill fit between Islam and the civilized world”. That’s a statement based in stereotype and an exhibition of prejudice. Your attempt to clarify it here still leaves you many steps removed from demonstrating that Muslims are regular members in good standing with the civilized world. The words like “too many that have a fantastical idea of an imaginary sphere” make it clear your only interest is to tar and feather. The difference between you and me is that I think a guy who punches another guy for offense to religion, their girl, or sports team, or whatever excuse is given for assaulting another person is violating their contract as members of the civilized world. I don’t extend this act to anything about their identity because the act of punching is simply a case of being an asshole. You don’t seem to understand that there is a separation between being an asshole and what a person is being an asshole about. So you invoke the Muslim menace instead of the same old asshole menace that the concept of free speech has always been threatened by. Further you solve the problem through upholding the law, not going on and on about how they are menacing our culture and country. > [@magellan01](#): > > If this made more sense I might feel compelled to comment on it. As it is, :rolleyes: You know what it means and you know it’s an accurate portrayal of the bigots wrapping themselves in free speech to get people to rally around their messages of hate and mistrust. The judge in this story was wrong in siding with the defendant but the the judge did a great job of recognizing that their are plenty of childish, uncivilized jerks in his courtroom. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971/20 "2012-02-25T23:04:52Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Your original statement was far more broad than this. It started with “Yet another incident that points to the ill fit between Islam and the civilized world”. That’s a statement based in stereotype and an exhibition of prejudice. Your attempt to clarify it here still leaves you many steps removed from demonstrating that Muslims are regular members in good standing with the civilized world. The words like “too many that have a fantastical idea of an imaginary sphere” make it clear your only interest is to tar and feather. 75% of Muslims live in nations that are at least 90% Muslim. In these countries Blasphemy is a crime. The level of punishment differs but the context behind the punishment is the same. So share with us what is stereotypical with Muslims in regards to Blasphemy. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-case-of-zombie-muhammad-vs-the-offended-muslim-guy/613971.md?page=2)