# The Cat Who Walked Through Walls: major spoilers and some "gahuuuh?!?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 1, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350 "2005-10-01T17:16:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/21 "2005-10-14T14:15:19Z")
> [@](#): > > “—All You Zombies—” is the original story of time travel getting a little strange. This created many of the concepts that later writers used. Arguably, “By His Bootstraps” is the Heinlein story of time travel getting a little strange. I’m pretty sure it predates Zombies, and it’s the first time travel story I know of with complex re-entrant loops. It’s pretty impressive, although, judging from the letters about it in Grumbles Beyond the Grave, Heinlein didn’t think it was very impressive at all. “Cotton candy”, he called it. Impressive cotton candy, if so. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/22 "2005-10-14T14:25:52Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Well, at least now I know that I’m not insane. “Cat” doesn’t seem to be a good book by fan standards and it’s downright confusing for those with no knowledge of the Heinlein universe. > > Maybe I will read a few of his other works and I’ll look back on this thread for a few recommendations. But for right now I’m going with the phrase TANSTAAFB: There ain’t no such thing as a free book. This’ll teach me to pick random books up off the book exchange shelf. Ender, everyone is correct that of all the first Heinlein books to read that was the exact wrong choice. Congrats! You win! He’s my offer, as a Heinlein fan: If you’ll email me your address I will send you three Heinlein books that I think are worth the reading. No charge…no postage. Purely out of my love for the man’s writing and a need to share it. In a sense, the old man taught me what it meant to be an adult. I still try (approaching 40) to live by those standards. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/23 "2005-10-14T14:35:00Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > In a sense, the old man taught me what it meant to be an adult. I still try (approaching 40) to live by those standards. My sentiments exactly. The only worse choice you could have made for a first Heinlein would have been _To Sail Beyond The Sunset._ My suggestions for starters are: 1. All of the juveniles mentioned by others 2. _The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress_ 3. _Starship Troopers_ - Read the original, and see why the fans consign Verhoeven to a special circle of Hell 4. The Future History stories My Pixel says \ to everybody else’s Pixel. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/24 "2005-10-14T14:42:19Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > Ender, everyone is correct that of all the first Heinlein books to read that was the exact wrong choice. Congrats! You win! > > He’s my offer, as a Heinlein fan: > > If you’ll email me your address I will send you three Heinlein books that I think are worth the reading. No charge…no postage. Purely out of my love for the man’s writing and a need to share it. > > In a sense, the old man taught me what it meant to be an adult. I still try (approaching 40) to live by those standards. Which 3 would you send. Just interested. I would send Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Glory road and the Door into Summer. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/25 "2005-10-14T14:51:33Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Which 3 would you send. Just interested. I would send Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Glory road and the Door into Summer. I’d have to think about it. But most likely: 1. The Past Through Tomorrow 2. Have Space Suit Will Travel 3. Either Moon is a Harsh Mistress or Starship Troopers That should encompass the shorts through the juveniles and into the adult. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/26 "2005-10-14T14:53:22Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > That should encompass the shorts through the juveniles and into the adult. Good choices. Some of Heinlein’s best work is in his short stories. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/27 "2005-10-14T14:58:13Z")
Yeah, the short stories define his writing. The novels take it to the next step. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/28 "2005-10-14T15:01:10Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > I’d have to think about it. But most likely: > > 1. The Past Through Tomorrow > 2. Have Space Suit Will Travel > 3. Either Moon is a Harsh Mistress or Starship Troopers > > That should encompass the shorts through the juveniles and into the adult. Good choices, please take Moon over Troopers, just a better overall book. I nearly forgot: “Puppet masters” was a fun book and predates the original Body Snatchers movie. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/29 "2005-10-14T15:17:57Z")
> [@](#): > > I nearly forgot: “Puppet masters” was a fun book and predates the original Body Snatchers movie. Movie? It predates Jack Finney’s _book_. And Heinlein was still apologizing for using such and old and tired idea. Take _that_ , all you people who claim that such body-snatching stories were insired by 1950s commie-hunting paranoia! I love that Puppet Masters reads like “James Bond meets the Body Snatchers”, yet it predates both Bond and Body Snatchers. And it’s still a great read. Especially now that they’ve published it with the censored parts restored. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/30 "2005-10-14T15:23:57Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Movie? It predates Jack Finney’s _book_. And Heinlein was still apologizing for using such and old and tired idea. Take _that_ , all you people who claim that such body-snatching stories were insired by 1950s commie-hunting paranoia! > I love that Puppet Masters reads like “James Bond meets the Body Snatchers”, yet it predates both Bond and Body Snatchers. And it’s still a great read. Especially now that they’ve published it with the censored parts restored. Well in theory Puppet Masters harkens back to much 30’s pulp fiction short stories and some elements were covers by EE Doc Smith. I think he wrote it on a whim of nostalgia for old time pulp Sci-Fi. 😃 Kinda of strange now that we are further removed from his book than he was from his inspirations. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/31 "2005-10-14T15:27:09Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > And it’s still a great read. Especially now that they’ve published it with the censored parts restored. What censored parts? My copy is a first edition, so there was stuff missing? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/32 "2005-10-14T15:55:29Z")
> [@](#): > > What censored parts? My copy is a first edition, so there was stuff missing? Yup. get thee to a bookstore – the censoring starts on the first page. Recent editions of **Red Planet** , **Stranger** , and **Podkayne** have restored sections, too. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/33 "2005-10-14T15:58:59Z")
Off to Amazon… Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/34 "2005-10-14T16:17:36Z")
I love **Glory Road** , but then again I love Heinlein. Reading **Stranger in a Strange Land** at age 12 was the first step in questioning the religious beliefs I had been raised with. And “blert” right back at ya, Pixel. I was very suprised the first time a cat actually said that to me. I was also suprised when one said “AFLAC”. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/35 "2005-10-14T17:00:10Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Good choices, please take Moon over Troopers, just a better overall book. > > I nearly forgot: “Puppet masters” was a fun book and predates the original Body Snatchers movie. My three candidates: The Door into Summer Have Spacesuit, Will Travel Podkayne of Mars ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/36 "2005-10-14T23:46:52Z")
It’s been said that Heinlein went through four phases: Juvenile, adult, senile, and post-senile. All of his juvenile books are good: You’ll get some debate about which ones are better than others (personally, I liked _Space Cadet_ a lot better than _Have Spacesuit, Will Travel_), but you really can’t go wrong with a Heinlein juvie (so long as you remember that they were written in the 50s or so). And many of his adult books are good, also, though tastes may vary considerably on them. I would certainly recommend reading _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, if you don’t mind that it’s written in dialect (I personally find that I get into the dialect in a few pages, and that it enhances the story). _Mistress_ is also set in the same universe as the first half of _Cat_, so it’ll help you considerably in retroactively understanding that book. You might also check out the collection _The Past Through Tomorrow_ (many short stories, plus “Methuselah’s Children”, the introduction of Lazarus Long) and _Starship Troopers_ (no particular connection to _Cat_, but a darned good book). But _The Cat who Walked through Walls_ is one of his post-seniles. My hat’s off to you for finishing it; if that had been my introduction to Heinlein, I know I sure wouldn’t have. Really, in order for it to make any sense, you have to read _Mistress_, _The Rolling Stones_ (one of his juveniles), _The Past through Tomorrow_, _Time Enough for Love: The Lives of Lazarus Long_ (further adventures of L. L., many many years after “Methuselah’s Children”) and _The Number of the Beast_ (which I don’t actually recommend reading). If you’ve read all of those, then _Cat_ will make sense, but even still, it’s not one of his best. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2005, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/37 "2005-10-15T01:03:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s been said that Heinlein went through four phases: Juvenile, adult, senile, and post-senile. …snip… Of course the Juveniles & Adults overlapped The last Juvenile was 1959 Starship Troopers and the first was 1947 Rocket Ship Galileo. Methuselah’s Children was 1941, The Puppet Masters was 1951, The Door into Summer 1957 etc. His strictly adult novels were from 1961 with Stranger in a Strange Land through 1973 Time Enough For Love. Then was the Hiatus no books until The Number of the Beast in 1980 and maybe one of his best books Friday in 1982. 3 Senile or Post Senile: I guess Job: A Comedy of Justice, The Cat Who Walks Through Walls & To Sail Beyond the Sunset. These were 1984 to 1987. I guess I can’t agree with your breakdown. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/38 "2005-10-15T01:28:55Z")
The senility came and went. Personally, I find\* I Will Fear No Evil\* to be the worst of the lot, and it was early in the down-period. _Friday_ and _Job_ I liked, a lot. To each his own. At least we can all agree that the juveniles are some of the best SF around, bar none. Can’t we? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/39 "2005-10-15T03:24:38Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The senility came and went. Personally, I find\* I Will Fear No Evil\* to be the worst of the lot, and it was early in the down-period. _Friday_ and _Job_ I liked, a lot. To each his own. At least we can all agree that the juveniles are some of the best SF around, bar none. Can’t we? 😃 Heinlein came down with a nearly lethal case of peritonitis in 1970, shortly after completing an initial draft of _I Will Fear No Evil_, during which his agent and his wife (who was also is business manager) elected to publish the novel as is, which explains the rather crude form. In the mid-Seventies he suffered from an arterial blockage which rendered him essentially nonfunctional. After that was cleared in what was then an experimental surgery (now common) in 1977, he returned to normal functioning and started writing in earnest. _Expanded Universe_ (mostly a collection of old and unpublished stories and essays with a few new bits), _Job_, and _Friday_ are from this period. (Of course, so is _The Number of the Beast_, but it seems to have had its genesis during his mid-Seventies period.) After _Friday_, Heinlein, a heavy smoker, started suffering the effects of emphysema, and while still mentally accute was not able to research or write as continuously as he had previously. (Heinlein typically put in full eight hour days, seven days a week, of solid writing while working on top of responding to fan and business correspondence and other tasks.) His last two books suffered accordingly, I think, varying in style, tone, and consistancy throughout. I think Heinlein is so revered in part because he pulled science fiction from the gutter of pulp magazines and made it respectable by focusing on characters rather than technology or abstract philosophy. The actual quality of his writing is somewhat subjective; some people think very highly of his dialog, but I think some of it stinks. (I say the same about Hemmingway, too, and for the same reason: he knew little about people and nothing about women, but he pretended he did.) He was also, if one wanted to grasp a single cause, the nucleous for the New Wave of science fiction; _Stranger in a Strange Land_ was indeed a pivotal novel; not for being the first to venture into philosophy, certainly, but the first (or at least the first successful) one to come to public consciousness. His later attempts to enter into that subgenre (of which I think his “World-As-Myth” counts) are less than appealing and somewhat clumsy, though. And yes, his juveniles are bar none great reading, as much today as they were then. Aside from a few technical details (the navigator in _Citizen of the Galaxy_ using a slide rule and sextant or taking images with photographic plates) they haven’t aged, in part, because Heinlein never wrote down to his presumably childish audience; he extends to them the same ethical issues as he later did to adults. And he never has the Earth rotating the wrong direction, Larry. _snicker_ Stranger ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2005, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350/40 "2005-10-15T03:29:38Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > And he never has the Earth rotating the wrong direction, Larry. _snicker_ I have in my possession a signed First Edition of _Ringworld_ (paperback, of course, since that was how it was first published) with the inscription “I did that on purpose! Larry Niven.” When I asked him to sign it that way he laughed. Nice guy, overall. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cat-who-walked-through-walls-major-spoilers-and-some-gahuuuh/324350.md?page=3)