# The Catholic Church, showing Christlike compassion, plays hardball with its victims **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 13, 2002, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817 "2002-05-13T15:04:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/1 "2002-05-13T15:04:26Z")
According to the [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8117-2002May12.html), it’s no more Mr. Nice Church: > [@](#): > > Where once the church tried to quietly settle cases, according to church and plaintiff lawyers, it is now pursuing an aggressive litigation strategy, hiring high-powered law firms and private detectives to examine the personal lives of the church’s accusers, fighting to keep documents secret and engaging in new tactics to minimize settlements. Charming, huh? Particulars: > [@](#): > > In Illinois, church lawyers grilled a victim about the details of his alleged abuse by a priest and asked whether he enjoyed it. In Pennsylvania, a young man who sued the church as a “John Doe” was forced to refile when he turned 18 so he could be identified. In Ohio, a mother whose son wasmolested by a Catholic school principal angrily dropped her suit after her teenage son left a deposition in tears. Or: > [@](#): > > Eighteen months ago, she sued the Roman Catholic Church of Hawaii after a parish sacristan who trained her son as an altar boy pleaded guilty to molesting him. Assuming the church would settle before the case went to trial, the 41-year-old single mother was shocked last month when the diocese charged in a countersuit that it was she who was negligent for allowing her boys, then 7 and 10, to sleep over at the sacristan’s apartment. So the RCC’s strategy seems to be: show compassion for the priests, aim the big guns at the faithful that they took advantage of, and not say a word about the higher-ups who covered up. Christ sacrificed himself for his people. The Church apparently sacrifices its people for itself. ---
**Author:** ![apotheosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@apotheosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apotheosis)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/2 "2002-05-13T15:31:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > **In Illinois, church lawyers grilled a victim about the details of his alleged abuse by a priest and asked whether he enjoyed it.** :eek: …:mad: It’s almost worth believing in hell, just so there’d be a special place where people like these “church lawyers” could **actually** experience all the things I can only wish on them. ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/3 "2002-05-13T15:36:42Z")
They have a track record for doing this kind of stuff. Just check the situation in Québec regarding the [Duplessis’ orphans](http://www.duplessisorphans.com/). To make it brief, in the 40s and 50s, the RCC was in charge of social services in the province of Québec. Due to the onus (at the time) of being born outside of wedlock, many children were left to the care of the Church. Since the various levels of government weren’t supplying as much money for orphans as for mentally deficient children, they were reclassified as such and put in mental institutions for several years where many of them were abused (sexually and otherwise). Now grown up and having an audience and proofs, they are fighting the government and the Church for reparations, with little luck so far. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/4 "2002-05-13T17:14:13Z")
Boy, RT, this has really gotten under your skin, hasn’t it? Not that I don’t understand. But suddenly I’m no a disinvolved party. -Jonathan “Just applied for the position of Marketing and PR Director for the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, no foolin’” Chance ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/5 "2002-05-13T17:26:21Z")
It’s really gotten under my skin, too. I was raised and confirmed in the Catholic Church. My grand-aunt was a nun until her death; my grandfather was a priest for a time until he realized it was not his calling. Seeing what has been done in Quebec, in Newfoundland, and at residential schools across the prairies and Canada’s north makes me wonder how blind my family could be to have stayed with the Church. I am a very spiritual person. I was also in the past a mass-attending Catholic. Given recent events in the Church, and events leading to a lack of faith in the religion, I will likely never set foot in mass again. One has to wonder if the church realizes that they are driving people away with this tactic. After their recent ‘Landings’ program to bring back ‘lapsed’ Catholics and the Jubilee year where everything was supposed to be new again, I thought perhaps there would be changes. It makes me very sad that those have been changes for the worse. ---
**Author:** ![apotheosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@apotheosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apotheosis)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/6 "2002-05-13T17:37:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > **Boy, RT, this has really gotten under your skin, hasn’t it?** Any reason why it shouldn’t? I mean call me an idealist, but I’d like to such a disgusting abuse of power and trust would be reviled by damned near everyone… > [@](#): > > **Jonathan “Just applied for the position of Marketing and PR Director for the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, no foolin’” Chance** …particularly those with a vested interest in putting a good face on things. ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/7 "2002-05-13T18:01:29Z")
I propose a catchy jingle. Sort of like (but adjusted by licensed jingle professionals): “Hey! We’re open to all so come on in! We can give you ab-so-loooooo-shin! And if your bothered by some priests’ little sin Just hush and don’t let it get under your skin!” No? Geez, tough crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/8 "2002-05-13T19:10:52Z")
I don’t have a vested interest… Yet. ---
**Author:** ![apotheosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@apotheosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apotheosis)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/9 "2002-05-13T19:15:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\*I don’t have a vested interest… > > Yet. \*\* Never too early to start practicing. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/10 "2002-05-13T19:33:28Z")
Step #1: Public Relations: Nothing is EVER a problem…it’s an opportunity for improvement. Cynical? Me? But I admit: the concept of the Conference of Catholic Bishops hiring a cynical jew to run their PR is almost too good to laugh at. ---
**Author:** ![apotheosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@apotheosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apotheosis)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/11 "2002-05-13T20:08:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\*the concept of the Conference of Catholic Bishops hiring a cynical jew to run their PR is almost too good to laugh at. \*\* Why not? Their last Jewish spokesperson was an absolute PR bonanza. ---
**Author:** ![pesch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pesch/32/4925_2.png) [@pesch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pesch)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/12 "2002-05-13T20:20:12Z")
:: rim shot :: ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/13 "2002-05-13T20:29:39Z")
Right now, I’d say “cynical” is the necessary keyword. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Yue\_Han](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eada6e/32.png) [@Yue\_Han](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yue_Han)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/14 "2002-05-13T20:30:12Z")
Kid: Jesus, Jesus, the bad man touched me! Jesus: Did you like it? You liked it, didn’t you? Little pervert! Mother: Jesus, help, someone molested my sons! Jesus: Sounds like you’re a bad mother to me. Whatever happened to the Church’s mission to, you know, represent Christ on Earth? Has everyone on this planet got spontaneously batshit? Priests are molesting children, their superiors are covering it up and _their_ superiors are attacking the victims. And no one in a position of authority, like say, the Pope, has a problem with it? FUCK. –John ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/15 "2002-05-13T20:35:09Z")
Oh my god… Fuck this shit. I’ve tried. Honestly I’ve tried…good god…WHY??? Shit, I was just sobbing while reading a biography of Oscar Romero. The guy JP isn’t sure he wants to canonize because it might give more worth to liberation theology (of which I am a follower)… And they DEFEND child molestors? FUCK FUCK FUCK!!! ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/16 "2002-05-13T20:38:37Z")
I’d like to personally thank the Catholic Church for making Southern Baptists, usually reviled as the most rabid fundamentalist group around, actually look good by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/17 "2002-05-13T20:44:15Z")
Good god…shit, maybe Jack Chick was right… ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/18 "2002-05-13T20:51:41Z")
I still have a problem understanding why the Catholic Church is responsible for an instance of molestation. Having foreknolwedge of a priest’s tendencies is one thing, so is covering up for a priest after the fact. If the RCC has done neither of those things in a particular instance, why are they liable? If a priest commits murder or robs a liquor store is that the RCC’s fault? Why do they get sued? Because individual priests don’t have money. The RCC does. There is great fiscal motive to manufacturing a story. I think they have every right, indeed even the responsibility to defend themselves as aggressively as possible. > [@](#): > > In Pennsylvania, a young man who sued the church as a “John Doe” was forced to refile when he turned 18 so he could be identified. So? > [@](#): > > her whose son wasmolested by a Catholic school principal angrily dropped her suit after her teenage son left a deposition in tears Why did he leave in tears? Why did the mother drop the suit? Was it because the lawyers were mean, or is that just another way of saying that the story didn’t hold up and the suit was frivolous? Oh, and this woman in Hawaii, she’s pissed off that the Church just didn’t throw money at her, but is instead forcing her to prove her case? Am I supposed to be upset by that? It’s our legal system. We created this adversarial system as the best means of arriving at justice. We’re supposed to be pissed off because the RCC just doesn’t automatically roll over at every lawsuit, but instead defends itself within the confines of our system. Gimme a break. Yeah, yeah, abuse by trusted priests, very hot issue, lots of outrage. **BFD** ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/19 "2002-05-13T20:54:47Z")
It’s NOT the molestations in and of themselves, **Scylla**. MY beef is the way the church has chosen to deal with this. And now they’re turning on the victims. I’m going Orthodox. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2002, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817/20 "2002-05-13T21:07:00Z")
Guin: > [@](#): > > MY beef is the way the church has chosen to deal with this. > > And now they’re turning on the victims. Which ones are the victims and which ones are people looking to cash in? This is not the RCC “turning on victims,” this is the United States legal system which is and has been an adversarial legal system for the last **200 fucking years!** It is also one where you are required to prove your case, and you just don’t get thrown money at because your story is sad, of a hot social issue. It’s our legal system. We designed it. **This is how it works in every single fucking case in America when somebody sues somebody else.** So now we’re pissed that the RCC is using the legal system it’s forced to? Should they not defend themselves? Should they just have a toll free number that you can call up and say you were abused and they’ll send you a check? What exactly should they be doing different? What the article doesn’t say is the greater reality that what is actually happening is that the Church is settling some cases, most likely those where it clearly culpable, and defending itself in other instances where they feel they are not. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-catholic-church-showing-christlike-compassion-plays-hardball-with-its-victims/108817.md?page=2)