This will probably mean nothing to most Dopers, but Emlyn Hughes. Damn. Sports heroes from my youth are not supposed to die yet.
Nobody picked Emlyn Hughes.
Another question about the deathpool. When we provide our list of 13 celebrities, do we also have to provide verification(CITE!) of their age? Just in case there was a dispute over points awarded when one of them kicks off?
I have ten selected for 2005, and I will have listed links to online material about their biographies.
Strangely enough, of the ten I’ve got, only one is a woman. I wonder why that is?
If Arafat hangs on until January do the points get awarded for '04 or '05?
If he’s still in a coma, then he’s not dead yet. It’s still possible that he could recover.
Now for the real question: What if Arafat dies on New Year’s Eve, and one source says he died just before midnight while another says that he lived to see '05? 
Excellent question! And which time zone would we go by?
The timezone the celeb was in when they croaked… If it’s 0115 on Jan 1 when Arafat dies, he died on Jan 1, even though it’s still December 31 in the US.
Ruling?
I don’t make the rules, so this is all just IMHO.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but IIRC we dont’ usually demand a cite for a celeb’s age unless the celebrity dies, or as an identifier if there are two possible celebrities with the same or similar name that could be confused. Are the people you’re going to be picking so obscure that we are unlikely to be able to find online biographies for them? If so, are you going to be able to provide links to their obituaries if they do die? If the answer to that last question is no, then I’d suggest you think hard about if they’re worth the possible debate, and if they actually fit the criteria of being a “celebrity”.
If Arafat dies in January, then it doesn’t count for this year’s death pool. The game ends at midnight on New Years Eve, and the 2005 game begins.
I’d speculate that in the unlikely event of two reputable sources being unable to agree if Arafat (or any other celebrity) died before or after midnight, we’d probably give the points anyway. If it was THAT close, then that would be good enough for me. Does anyone agree?
WAG: The time zone the celebrity was in at the time of their death seems the sensible choice. If Arafat dies in Paris at 2:05pm on December 31st, it will already be 2005 in Australia, but it will still be 2004 for Arafat so he will have died in 2004. I could be wrong - it’s possible that we may use Chicago time as the standard, but that doesn’t make as much sense to me.
I would think that since the game begins at midnight CST, it would end at midnight CST as well. Celebs who croak on January 1 in the Eastern Hemisphere would still count as long as the clock hasn’t struck midnight in the CST.
As far as celebs ages, we normally go by the obits, but there are some famous people (especially in the middle-east) for whom reliable ages are iffy. Don’t know what will happen in such a case as that.
I do have one other thing. We might need a little rule addition for next year. I think we should prohibit the picking of people who were abducted in Iraq this year. This is tantamount to being on death row. Someone could conceivably fill their list with people like the Allawis and Margaret Hassan and then watch the points pile up as each one is murdered.
Questions, questions! I think most of you have got it right, though.
Baker: No, I don’t require cites of birthdates with submissions. (Cites when announcing someone’s death during the game are helpful, however.) I’m more concerned with my not catching submissions who’ve already died (Rule 3a).
Rule 2 states that your picks must be time- and date-stamped by midnight Chicago time (U.S. Central, six hours behind Greenwich) on Dec. 31st. cazzle and Captain Lance have the right idea about time of death and time zones: if it’s already 2005 where the dead celebrity is, no points can be scored for the 2004 game if it’s still 2004 here. What VunderBob said.
Captain Lance: Rule 5 states: “If we are uncertain about the celebrity’s age at death, we will go with the higher age (lower score).”
Captain Lance, I am willing to go along with your suggestion re executed prisoners – we’re macabre but not that macabre – but how do we define “celebrity” prisoners? Just, “anyone who makes the news as a prisoner who is then executed” (would be ineligible)? Anyone have any feedback here?
However, the cited examples in 2d need to be changed. The Olsen twins are now 18, and therefore, legal.
Yes, that’s true. However, Hilary Duff, Haley Joel Osment, and the Harry Potter kids are all underage.
What, you think I don’t keep track of this stuff?
What if Arafat is on a ship in the Pacific and he dies while crossing the International Date Line on December 31, 2004 at 23:58.59. So now, it is January 1, 2005, 0100. But then a tidal wave pushes the boat back on the other side of the Internationl Date Line and it’s back to December 31, 2004. And then the boat sinks right.on.the.line.
My question is this: Will Arafat end up in the Land of Misfit Toys?
Re: the celebrity prisoners:
I think that if a person was a celebrity before he/she became a prisoner AND if said celebrity prisoner is actually incarcerated as a result of a criminal conviction (i.e. the person is not a terror hostage) AND said celebrity is not on death row, then said celebrity should be fair game. An obvious example would be Martha Stewart or (potentially) Robert Blake. This would allow us to invest in recidivistic drug addicts (i.e Robert Downey Jr) without chancing a nullification of points if they don’t drop on the outside.
What if Rule 7 were amended to something like “Incarcerated persons who are put to death by their captors do not score points?”
Actually, cazzle and Captain Lance set forth mutually exclusive ideas on this matter. cazzle and VunderBob’s take on the matter are in agreement, however, and this seems to be the position that a35362 is endorsing.
But for the record, Captain Lance actually took a CST-based position.
(Just trying to clear things up – not stir things up. Honest!)
Now I have to revise the list I was planning for 2005.
If I read post 647 correctly, Shirley, you made a big jump to tied for fifth place, along with notfrommensa.
Man. It took a long time for that cork to pop.
WooHoo! 25 points!!
I need balance. How’s Sharon doin?