# The Census, Hispanics and Race. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 7, 2010, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614 "2010-03-07T12:09:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/61 "2010-03-09T10:38:17Z")
I’m not disagreeing with you in that part, **Chefguy**. 😉 I’m not going to answer Sapo’s questions, Wendell, but to expand a bit of Nava’s comments… Since Hispanic is more about culture and less about genetic descriptions (which is the problem bit here), _even if he grew up in the U.S._, if the predominant culture he was raised in, the culture he identifies with, is Venezuelan, then he is 100% Hispanic. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/62 "2010-03-09T12:26:32Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > You must be remembering wrong. You either got the long form or the short form. That was randomly selected. There should not have been anybody who got nothing. The census is constitutionally required to go to to every single person. But for practical reasons, it really can only go to every single _household_, and it’s up to the local office to hit them all. So some people may get missed. And yes, the question as to whether your ethnocultural identity is something you’re born into vs. something you’re raised in does create issues both legal and social. If I adopt an infant somewhere in Asia and raise her here in PR speaking Spanish, eating mofongo and listening to Calle 13, there may be a way for her to play with the census form boxes to her own and the government’s satisfaction, but there will still be folks down the street who’ll insist she’s “not a real Puerto Rican”. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/63 "2010-03-09T14:53:00Z")
KarlGreuze writes: \> Since Hispanic is more about culture and less about genetic descriptions (which \> is the problem bit here), even if he grew up in the U.S., if the predominant \> culture he was raised in, the culture he identifies with, is Venezuelan, then he is \> 100% Hispanic. Suppose, as I am reading (or misreading) his posts to say, that Sapo was born in the U.S. Suppose, as I am reading them, that his father was born in Venezuela and his mother was born in the U.S. and is of Italian ancestry. Suppose, as I don’t know but is possible, that he grew up in the same neighborhood that this mother grew up in which just happened to be mostly an Italian-American neighborhood. Then he is not 100% Hispanic. In that case, he might have felt more like his Italian-American neighbors. He would be justified in that case in saying that he is half-Hispanic. In other words, until Sapo clarifies things by explaining his exact family history to us, we know nothing. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/64 "2010-03-09T16:39:55Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > But for practical reasons, it really can only go to every single _household_, and it’s up to the local office to hit them all. So some people may get missed. Ah, that’s true. Maybe he thought he was missed that way. In any case the head of household should have counted him. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/65 "2010-03-09T17:19:18Z")
I was born in Venezuela. So was my dad. Still, my question is the same for the vast majority of Latinos all over who are more brown than they are white or black. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/66 "2010-03-09T17:20:21Z")
> [@BetsQ](#): > > **Sapo** , why not check off white, black, and American Indian? That seems to cover your bases. No need to choose just one. I might do just that (nice link, btw) ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/67 "2010-03-09T17:58:26Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Assuming that you’re a US citizen or resident, of course you’ll be selected for the census this year; it’s not a random sampling but is supposed to be an actual headcount. On the other hand, you’ll almost certainly not be thrown into jail. I’m not sure how the census bureau counts overseas and other expat Americans, but I assume that they have a process for that. Correction: only US residents are counted. US citizens that are resident in another country are not counted. > [@ghardester](#): > > Yes, but to clarify a bit, there is still a long form Census. It is now called the American Community Survey and it goes out to 250,000 households each month, every month, all year long on a perpetual basis. I got one of those last year. It was long. For extra fun, two of my foreign inlaws were staying with us and they got to be counted too (they just barely met the criteria to be counted). ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ For questions about race and ethnicity, we simply put down “Other: American”, since leaving it blank on the census form is illegal. We don’t feel it’s appropriate for the government to be asking about our family’s ancestry. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/68 "2010-03-10T06:13:18Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/69 "2010-03-10T14:07:09Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Correction: only US residents are counted. US citizens that are resident in another country are not counted. Well, dang. To IRS, I’ll soon be considered a bona fide resident (for income tax purposes!) of Mexico. I still pay Michigan taxes and own and maintain my house. I still feel that I’m a resident of Michigan (except for income tax purposes!). I know! I’ll ask my neighbor (the one who collects my mail) to fill it out. There’s no language on the form this year that would make that fraud, right? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/70 "2010-03-10T15:48:32Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Well, dang. To IRS, I’ll soon be considered a bona fide resident (for income tax purposes!) of Mexico. I still pay Michigan taxes and own and maintain my house. I still feel that I’m a resident of Michigan (except for income tax purposes!). > > I know! I’ll ask my neighbor (the one who collects my mail) to fill it out. There’s no language on the form this year that would make that fraud, right? Here is the [2010 form](http://2010.census.gov/partners/pdf/langfiles/2010_Questionnaire_Info_Copy.pdf). The instructions say _“Count all people, including babies, who live and sleep here most of the time”_. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/71 "2010-03-10T16:32:28Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > It asks me what race I am. I presume “HUMAN”… ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/72 "2010-03-10T17:37:58Z")
The thing I find difficult about this issue is that so much of it seems to be based on what people perceive you to be. Take my husband, he is Hispanic to the same degree as Sapo is…he has a father who was born and raised in a Spanish-speaking country, and a mother who is not Hispanic at all, and born and raised in the US. My husband isn’t like Sapo, however, in that he doesn’t look like what people in this country think of as “Hispanic,” to the point where he is often questioned about how he came to have a Spanish last name. Which irritates him, and I think makes him feel a little on the outs in the Hispanic community, which is not fair because it IS his heritage and culture. And I’ve often thought that, being that he doesn’t have a Hispanic look to him, if it was his mother who was Hispanic, and he was walking around with an Irish last name, for instance, he would most likely lose his Hispanic identity altogether. So, all of this is leading up to a question for Sapo. If technically (genetically) you are “Caucasian,” which is I think the race that native American peoples belong to, then what is it that makes you say you aren’t? Is it because you don’t look white, or you look like a typical Hispanic? If that’s so, then I think I would just follow the census form, put down that you are Caucasian, and then assign yourself to the Hispanic ethnicity. That’s accurate, and it doesn’t really have anything to do with what you look like (IMO, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/73 "2010-03-10T17:57:52Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > So, all of this is leading up to a question for Sapo. If technically (genetically) you are “Caucasian,” which is I think the race that native American peoples belong to, then what is it that makes you say you aren’t? Is it because you don’t look white, or you look like a typical Hispanic? If that’s so, then I think I would just follow the census form, put down that you are Caucasian, and then assign yourself to the Hispanic ethnicity. That’s accurate, and it doesn’t really have anything to do with what you look like (IMO, of course). Again, I could probably get away with “White”, even if that’s not how I feel. The question still stands for my wife (and the many million others) who is definitely brown and with a lineage that includes European, Black and “indian” all the way from her parents to Eve. As for why I don’t feel White, it is not my heritage. My looks have little to do with it. I am “white” in most non-capital areas of Latin America and “non-white” in Europe or the US. Call me a darkened white, or a bleached hispanic. I won’t mind. Although I realize that this whole issue stems from a confusing of “race” versus nationality, it is the Census Bureau who made the confusion and is asking me two separate questions for what everybody else has to respond in just one. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/74 "2010-03-10T18:56:07Z")
Don’t people get SS cards when they give birth and/or take a job? Why is this insufficient for census tabulations? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/75 "2010-03-10T19:10:50Z")
Because the census must be an actual counting of all the people living in each area. It doesn’t matter what a person’s citizenship or work status is. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/76 "2010-03-10T19:53:15Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > Again, I could probably get away with “White”, even if that’s not how I feel. The question still stands for my wife (and the many million others) who is definitely brown and with a lineage that includes European, Black and “indian” all the way from her parents to Eve. > > As for why I don’t feel White, it is not my heritage. My looks have little to do with it. I am “white” in most non-capital areas of Latin America and “non-white” in Europe or the US. Call me a darkened white, or a bleached hispanic. I won’t mind. Although I realize that this whole issue stems from a confusing of “race” versus nationality, it is the Census Bureau who made the confusion and is asking me two separate questions for what everybody else has to respond in just one. I guess I’m just not getting you, because to me, “white” isn’t a heritage. A person can be as white as can be, and still have a Hispanic heritage. If I line up a white person, a black person, and a brownish person and they all have Spanish last names and they all come from a Spanish culture, then they are Hispanic. The color is irrelevant. I don’t know, I’ve thought about this issue a lot (my kids being in the same situation my husband is in), and maybe it’s just something I can’t relate to. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/77 "2010-03-10T19:59:23Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > If technically (genetically) you are “Caucasian,” which is I think the race that native American peoples belong to… I’m having trouble with this. What do you mean “native American”? If you mean “Native American”, no, they are not “Caucasian”. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/78 "2010-03-10T20:04:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m having trouble with this. What do you mean “native American”? If you mean “Native American”, no, they are not “Caucasian”. Sorry, no, you are right (duh). But “American Indian and Alaska Native” is one of the categories, so a Hispanic of Native American background would mark that, wouldn’t they? And then indicate that they are Hispanic. But a person can be White and be Hispanic, they can be Native American and not be Hispanic. I guess my argument is that you need both to get a clear picture of the person’s race/ethnicity. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/79 "2010-03-10T20:09:55Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Don’t people get SS cards when they give birth and/or take a job? Why is this insufficient for census tabulations? There are many people who live in the U.S., yet do not have SS numbers. Perfectly legally. They must be counted, too. ETA: Even illegal immigrants are supposed to be counted by the census, although that is a matter of some controversy. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614/80 "2010-03-10T20:18:52Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > There are many people who live in the U.S., yet do not have SS numbers. Perfectly legally. They must be counted, too. > > ETA: Even illegal immigrants are supposed to be counted by the census, although that is a matter of some controversy. I forgot to mention: The SSN information doesn’t have the current residential location of the person, which is extremely important for the census. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-census-hispanics-and-race/531614.md?page=5)