# The chase is on--Adam Dunn goes after Rob Deer's record **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 25, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081 "2011-08-25T20:41:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ambihelical\_Hexnut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4491bb/32.png) [@Ambihelical\_Hexnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambihelical_Hexnut)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/101 "2011-09-26T21:32:19Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > It’s coming right down to the wire! Ozzie has started playing Dunn again, and with three games to go, he needs only 13 more plate appearances. His average at the moment is .161, which would shatter Deer’s record by a full 18 points. > > To get 13, Dunn will need to play in all three remaining games, and get at least 5 PA’s in one game. Which may be difficult, given the White Sox popgun offense and the fact that they’re at home and so won’t likely bat in the ninth if they do generate offense. > > **However** –there is a Plan B. As we know, there is the “Tony Gwynn loophole” which allows a player to win the batting title with fewer than 502 PA’s, if by making outs the player could reach 502 and still win. > > Should a similar exemption apply to a futility record? It’s possible that Dunn will trail Deer even with sufficient hits added to his record to reach 502 PA’s. This is a profound existential question. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Sure, why not? He actually needs 14 more plate appearances (162\*3.1 = 502.2, so 503 PAs are needed). If we’re going to add hits to his total to get him up to 503 PA, then he needs to make 5 more outs to break the record. 5 more outs would bring him to .159 (66 for 415) in 494 PA. Adding 9 more hits to this gives a .177 average (75 for 424 in 503 PA) - worse than Deer by .002. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/102 "2011-09-26T21:43:39Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Sure, why not? Just because it sounds weird to describe him as having “the worst batting average of any player ever to qualify for the batting title”, if in fact he didn’t qualify for the batting title. > [@Ambihelical Hexnut](#): > > He actually needs 14 more plate appearances (162\*3.1 = 502.2, so 503 PAs are needed). No, they round down to 502. It says so in the baseball rules, although I’m too lazy to link it at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Ambihelical\_Hexnut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4491bb/32.png) [@Ambihelical\_Hexnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambihelical_Hexnut)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/103 "2011-09-27T13:15:55Z")
Update: Last night Dunn went 0-2 with 2 walks, dropping his average to .160 (66 for 412), and leaving him short of qualifying for the batting title by 9 PA. Even if he goes 9 for 9 in the last 2 games, he will still only get his average up to .178 - worse than Deer by .001. So unless he gets 10 or more hits in the last 2 games (which would probably be the most unlikely thing ever to happen in MLB history, considering that he has no 5 hit games in his 1569 game career), he’s guaranteed the record for worst average of all time (if we’re going to add hits to get him to 502 PA should he fall short). ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/104 "2011-09-27T14:18:04Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > But most baseball people are aware that pitchers are almost all arms. If it was all about arm strength, all MLB pitchers would look like Popeye the Sailor Man. Pitching strength comes from the legs and shoulders. That’s why Nolan Ryan was so great, he had thighs like redwood trees. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/105 "2011-09-27T17:18:31Z")
Pitchers being all arms does not refer to them physically. It means they are there to throw the ball. They will get a job in baseball as long as they can throw well, no matter how poorly they hit , run or field. Not all pitchers are just a fast ball. There are pitchers who do quite well with knuckleballs, curves and sliders. Accuracy is important after all. Lots of pitchers are way out of shape. They can still pitch. [http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/does-size-matter-part-6/](http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/does-size-matter-part-6/) ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/106 "2011-09-27T19:39:41Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Pitchers being all arms does not refer to them physically. It means they are there to throw the ball. They will get a job in baseball as long as they can throw well, no matter how poorly they hit , run or field. > Not all pitchers are just a fast ball. There are pitchers who do quite well with knuckleballs, curves and sliders. Accuracy is important after all. > Lots of pitchers are way out of shape. They can still pitch. > [Does Size Matter (Part 6) | The Hardball Times](http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/does-size-matter-part-6/) Are we still on this? And the link seems to be indicating that, in order for a pudgy guy to make it to the Bigs as a pitcher, he has to be an exceptionally gifted athlete in other respects in order to be effective, so I don’t really see your point: > [@](#): > > Fat pitchers also don’t “look good,” so we would expect that for a fat pitcher to be called up the majors, he would have to be a little better than an average pitcher. This, of course, is an unnecessary bias, but because it exists, fat pitchers tend to do a little bit better if they actually do make it. What it does not say is that all pitchers are out of shape or even that lots of pitchers are out of shape. Not even close. Getting back to the actual point of the thread, Dunn will be hard pressed to get his 9 PAs to qualify, thank goodness. I like to see Rob Deer’s name in the record books for his profound awesomeness. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/107 "2011-09-28T03:16:24Z")
0 for 3 tonight. I don’t think it’s at all likely he’ll get 6 PAs tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/108 "2011-09-28T21:49:41Z")
He didn’t play today, so he finishes 66-for-415 (.159) with 177 strikeouts (a White Sox franchise record) in 496 PA’s. With six more hits he would have qualified and batted .171. An unsatisfying conclusion, neither fish nor fowl. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/109 "2011-10-02T21:44:30Z")
Nor deer. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/110 "2011-10-02T22:18:35Z")
[Pretty close, though.](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/deerro01.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/111 "2011-10-02T22:52:58Z")
Dunn had to be the worst player in baseball this year, right? I know someone somwhere went 0-for-17 or something, which is technically worse on a per-appearance basis, but I mean for overall season-long hurting-your-teamness, it had to be Big Donkey. How often does a guy hit that bad who isn’t a glove man? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/112 "2011-10-02T23:29:26Z")
He averaged 243 for his career. He had 38 hrs ,95 rbis and a 372 obp in an average year. They did not expect this when they signed him. I would not want to his agent. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/113 "2011-10-02T23:57:08Z")
The Tigers tried to sign him. it is good they missed. ---
**Author:** ![Ambihelical\_Hexnut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4491bb/32.png) [@Ambihelical\_Hexnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambihelical_Hexnut)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/114 "2011-10-03T13:03:54Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Dunn had to be the worst player in baseball this year, right? > > I know someone somwhere went 0-for-17 or something, which is technically worse on a per-appearance basis, but I mean for overall season-long hurting-your-teamness, it had to be Big Donkey. How often does a guy hit that bad who isn’t a glove man? I’ve checked [Baseball-Reference.com](http://Baseball-Reference.com)’s list of players sorted by Wins Above Replacement , and, unsurprisingly, Dunn was indeed the worst MLB player this year (-2.7 WAR), just beating out Brian Matusz (-2.6 WAR). The second worst batter was Magglio Ordonez (-1.9 WAR). What really surprised me about that list is that there were 14 pitchers worse than John Lackey (-1.2 WAR) ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/115 "2011-10-03T15:54:08Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Dunn had to be the worst player in baseball this year, right? > > I know someone somwhere went 0-for-17 or something, which is technically worse on a per-appearance basis, but I mean for overall season-long hurting-your-teamness, it had to be Big Donkey. How often does a guy hit that bad who isn’t a glove man? I’m almost certain that someone started the season 0-for30-something. I wish I remembered who… Joe ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/116 "2011-10-03T23:37:56Z")
> [@Ambihelical\_Hexnut](#): > > What really surprised me about that list is that there were 14 pitchers worse than John Lackey (-1.2 WAR) If you want to hang a stat on Gomer, try the fact that he had the worst ERA in the AL of any pitcher eligible for the title - by a full run worse than the _second_-worst guy. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/117 "2011-10-04T00:11:52Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Dunn had to be the worst player in baseball this year, right? > > **I know someone somwhere went 0-for-17 or something, which is technically worse on a per-appearance basis** , but I mean for overall season-long hurting-your-teamness, it had to be Big Donkey. How often does a guy hit that bad who isn’t a glove man? [Eugenio Velez actually went 0-for-37](http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2011/09/dodgers-eugenio-velez-sets-mark-with-0-for-37-season/1). ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/118 "2011-10-04T00:32:13Z")
> [@wheresgeorge04](#): > > I’m almost certain that someone started the season 0-for30-something. I wish I remembered who… > > Joe As the story linked by **Asimovian** just above this post indicates, Milwaukee’s Craig Counsell started 2011 0-for-45. He finished [28-for-157](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/counscr01.shtml), a relatively lusty .178. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/119 "2011-10-04T01:01:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If you want to hang a stat on Gomer, try the fact that he had the worst ERA in the AL of any pitcher eligible for the title - by a full run worse than the _second_-worst guy. You have to admire Terry Francona’s… uh, persistence? ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081/120 "2011-10-04T01:49:39Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You have to admire Terry Francona’s… uh, persistence? Believe it or not, Plan B was probably even worse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chase-is-on-adam-dunn-goes-after-rob-deers-record/594081.md?page=7)