# The Choice of the Democratic Party **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 19, 2008, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195 "2008-01-19T22:15:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/141 "2008-01-28T04:20:38Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] President McHuckabee, here we come. [/QUOTE] You mean [McCylon.](http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/shootER5/zmccain.png) :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/142 "2008-01-28T04:28:25Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] You mean [McCylon.](http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/shootER5/zmccain.png) :eek: [/QUOTE] Ooh, hadn’t noticed the resemblance. Isn’t that guy one of the humans? Or was he revealed as a cylon later, just like McCain will be? [Here’s another kinda lookalike.](http://www.peterweircave.com/dps/nl.jpg) Remember Norman Lloyd from _St. Elsewhere_? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/143 "2008-01-28T04:46:49Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] Ooh, hadn’t noticed the resemblance. Isn’t that guy one of the humans? Or was he revealed as a cylon later, just like McCain will be? [/QUOTE] I’d tell you, but then Brother Cavil would have to kill you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Flipshod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f19dbf/32.png) [@Flipshod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flipshod)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/144 "2008-01-28T15:48:14Z")
[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe] Yeah you guys had it really bad… Free love, lots of drugs until you got older whereupon you decided it had to stop. All for the left until you actually started to make money in the 80’s and decided to borrow money from the future (my generation) We’re hobbled with your pessimism and bad choices yet can’t outlive it because you won’t let it go lest you become irrelevant. The “Me” generation indeed. Tough row to hoe. Notice that my generation is the first to be less well-off than that of our parents? And we have a guy who wants to change it but we can’t because a bunch of people want to relive feminism and their stupid ghosts? Yes I’m bitter. [/QUOTE] Gen Xer here. All those points are correct. But at least one day all you boomlets will be the effective majority. My generataion is sandwiched between the two, is much smaller, and will be in prime earning capacity right when the babyboom bills come due. When ya’ll gain power, please remember us. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/145 "2008-01-28T18:29:42Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] You mean [McCylon.](http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/shootER5/zmccain.png) :eek: [/QUOTE] Jayzus! That’s crazy similar! I’ve been a huge BSG fan and I never noticed it. There are some pics in there where I have to study it for a second to tell who is who! ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/146 "2008-01-28T18:44:59Z")
[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe] We are of course on the verge of doing it again with HRC. Electing the least inspiring leader possible. Face it people, inspiring candidates get people to the polls. That’s a simple fact. [/QUOTE] This is my biggest bitch about my party. The delegates don’t vote for who can win; they vote for _who they think we should want_. I am fucking tired of message candidates that don’t have a hope in hell of winning. Gore was dead before he even got the nom; Kerry likewise. Obama stands an actual chance of winning, but my own state is so in love with the Clinton name and the fact that it’s a woman…guess who it’s going to go to for California (although yesterday did go a long way to making it more of a question mark, & the idiot on CNN who said “California isn’t even paying attention to South Carolina” should be bitchslapped). ---
**Author:** ![Anomalous\_Reading](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Anomalous\_Reading](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anomalous_Reading)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/147 "2008-01-28T21:57:39Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] but my own state is so in love with the Clinton name and the fact that it’s a woman… [/QUOTE] I know I’m being catty. I know I’ll pay for it later, but can I ask an odd point? Would Hillary be the first woman president, or the first female president? I hold the standard for man and woman a little higher than what she’s been doing… or been allowing. And YES, that means I don’t think Bush Jr is any kind of a man. He’s too dismissive, disrespectful, short sighted, and petulant (strong willed is one thing, fussing because you don’t get your Iran war… that’s petulant). /digression \spanking me… ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/148 "2008-01-28T22:04:21Z")
[QUOTE=Anomalous Reading] I know I’m being catty. I know I’ll pay for it later, but can I ask an odd point? Would Hillary be the first woman president, or the first female president? I hold the standard for man and woman a little higher than what she’s been doing… or been allowing. And YES, that means I don’t think Bush Jr is any kind of a man. He’s too dismissive, disrespectful, short sighted, and petulant (strong willed is one thing, fussing because you don’t get your Iran war… that’s petulant). /digression \spanking me… [/QUOTE] Obviously she would be the first female president. If I’m understanding your viewpoint correctly, the first woman president would welcome foreign heads-of-state with, “Who wants cookies?” ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/149 "2008-01-28T22:07:25Z")
[QUOTE=LilShieste] Obviously she would be the first female president. If I’m understanding your viewpoint correctly, the first woman president would welcome foreign heads-of-state with, “Who wants cookies?” [/QUOTE] No, more along the lines of “the first woman president wouldn’t resort to such childish and underhanded tactics to obtain delegates, and would hopefully carry herself with more dignity.” Which I don’t think is such a catty observation… fairly accurate. Pity our delegates can’t be persuaded to agree. ---
**Author:** ![Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Key_Lime_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/150 "2008-01-28T22:08:18Z")
Obama as nominee: I would run through the New England Patriots’ offensive line in order to vote Hillary as nominee: I would stay home even if they were giving out free blowjobs ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/151 "2008-01-28T22:09:55Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] No, more along the lines of “the first woman president wouldn’t resort to such childish and underhanded tactics to obtain delegates, and would hopefully carry herself with more dignity.” Which I don’t think is such a catty observation… fairly accurate. Pity our delegates can’t be persuaded to agree. [/QUOTE] Fair enough. By these standards, though, men and women are a rarity in politics. ---
**Author:** ![Anomalous\_Reading](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Anomalous\_Reading](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anomalous_Reading)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/152 "2008-01-28T22:27:53Z")
[QUOTE=LilShieste] Obviously she would be the first female president. If I’m understanding your viewpoint correctly, the first woman president would welcome foreign heads-of-state with, “Who wants cookies?” [/QUOTE] No. Not at all. Lemme try an example… Let’s say you and I sit down with a few friends to play Monopoly. After a brief round of discussion we decide to use the official rules. (Let it be noted that the OFFICIAL rules do not mean you get money for landing on Free Parking. Free Parking is what it says… a free space to land on. A reprieve.) Now… the game’s going along and through some bad purchases and some unfortunate rolls of the dice you find yourself behind. Then it happens. You are the first person to land on Free Parking. Would you reach for $500 dollars? If not… why? I could make additional arguments about the quality of her argument for why she should be president like… I’m not black. I’m a woman. Bill’s with me. And other arguments that honestly… sound like the taunts I left behind in elementary school. But… she’s over 18. So… she’s a woman. Legally. Let me ask you though… is asking to change the rules that YOU agreed upon in the middle of the race the act of a mature person? Or just a person out to win? Which lies are ok? How much integrity must a man or woman show before we stop giving them the respect we accord Men and Women? And to wit… I mentioned Bush as not being a man in my eyes. Yet you think I’m being sexist? I made my argument. I hope I’m a bit clearer this time. ---
**Author:** ![Anomalous\_Reading](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Anomalous\_Reading](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anomalous_Reading)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/153 "2008-01-28T22:30:51Z")
[QUOTE=LilShieste] Fair enough. By these standards, though, men and women are a rarity in politics. [/QUOTE] I don’t understand why she hasn’t been called on her (near?) swift boating tactics. Those who use THAT method, I don’t respect. I understand McCain and Romney having a “Yer a libr’l!!” verbal spat. It’s central to being electable and trustworthy as a Republican to carry a conservative badge of honor. I understand a wee bit of name calling - particularly on ISSUES. And besides… which one of them is running for President? Because it’s starting to look like HE is… And that, too, bothers me. He would legally have no power - unless appointed through the proper channels. Other than those afforded to a spouse. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/154 "2008-01-28T22:37:16Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] Obama stands an actual chance of winning, but my own state is so in love with the Clinton name and the fact that it’s a woman…guess who it’s going to go to for California (although yesterday did go a long way to making it more of a question mark, & the idiot on CNN who said “California isn’t even paying attention to South Carolina” should be bitchslapped). [/QUOTE] [Do](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9412435#post9412435) [not](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9413052#post9413052) [despair](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9413564#post9413564), [my](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9413613#post9413613) [friend](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9413912#post9413912). I think California is paying _very_ close attention. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/155 "2008-01-28T22:44:42Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] [Do](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9412435#post9412435) [not](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9413052#post9413052) [despair](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9413564#post9413564), [my](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9413613#post9413613) [friend](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9413912#post9413912). I think California is paying _very_ close attention. [/QUOTE] Woohoo! And here I was worried that, now that Florida is effectively out of the delegate count, our one shot at having our voice matter would be wasted. Most encouraging, thanks, **Shayna**. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/156 "2008-01-28T22:46:46Z")
[QUOTE=Anomalous Reading] No. Not at all. Lemme try an example… Let’s say you and I sit down with a few friends to play Monopoly. After a brief round of discussion we decide to use the official rules. (Let it be noted that the OFFICIAL rules do not mean you get money for landing on Free Parking. Free Parking is what it says… a free space to land on. A reprieve.) Now… the game’s going along and through some bad purchases and some unfortunate rolls of the dice you find yourself behind. Then it happens. You are the first person to land on Free Parking. Would you reach for $500 dollars? If not… why? [/QUOTE] Other than watching as Barack Obama is announced the winner of the 2008 Presidential race, very little would give me such unmitigated pleasure as watching Hillary have to choke on Florida’s delegates when they’re overwhelmingly for Barack Obama. Let’s just hope she doesn’t play Monopoly any better than she [bowls](http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking_dade/story/395944.html). ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/157 "2008-01-28T23:01:20Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] Woohoo! And here I was worried that, now that Florida is effectively out of the delegate count, our one shot at having our voice matter would be wasted. Most encouraging, thanks, **Shayna**. [/QUOTE] My pleasure! I wrote to Nancy Pelosi and Barbara Boxer yesterday (you can read my letter [here](http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/jillk/CGjdC)), and plan to keep pounding away at all the [uncommitted Superdelegates](http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/01/superdelegates-who-havent-endorsed.html) in this state until next Tuesday. (I wrote to Senator Kennedy on Saturday, then lo and behold, on Sunday he announced his intent to endorse Obama! You think I’d have any luck claiming credit for that one? ;)) We have to fight for this if we want it! ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/158 "2008-01-29T04:07:14Z")
[QUOTE=Anomalous Reading] I made my argument. I hope I’m a bit clearer this time. [/QUOTE] Yes, you were. I apologize for the knee-jerk reaction; I misunderstood your earlier post. > [@Anomalous Reading](#): > > I don’t understand why she hasn’t been called on her (near?) swift boating tactics. But she has been called out on it, hasn’t she? (At least by people I’ve talked with, as well as [some](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=452637) [fellow](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=453144) [Dopers](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=452331). As for the media… well, my expectations for them have been low these days.) [QUOTE=Anomalous Reading] Those who use THAT method, I don’t respect. [/quote] Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Anomalous\_Reading](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Anomalous\_Reading](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anomalous_Reading)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195/159 "2008-01-29T22:41:17Z")
[QUOTE=LilShieste] Yes, you were. I apologize for the knee-jerk reaction; I misunderstood your earlier post. [/QUOTE] Not a problem. Actually, it was kind of fun to work through my intuitions on this with a metaphor. I knew I stepped out on a limb with the comment about her. It’s just… I expect better from my youngest - and he’s ten… (Flip side: I REALLY don’t like seeing people be or feel disenfranchised. Had she taken that tack early… I’d be applauding right now. She didn’t. She went along with it. Until it didn’t suit her.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-choice-of-the-democratic-party/434195.md?page=7)