# The Christian Choate case: positively sickening **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 4, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768 "2011-07-04T00:36:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![omni-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8dc957/32.png) [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/1 "2011-07-04T00:36:42Z")
> **[Caged and doomed, boy leaves sad account of his life](https://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/07/03/greene.boy.missing/index.html?hpt=hp_p1&iref=NS1)** > > The answers are starting to emerge. It is hard to imagine them being any more heartbreaking. Words simply fail me on this one, and I’m usually a fairly jaded person. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/2 "2011-07-04T00:43:09Z")
As in, the link isn’t working for me. Damn dial-up! ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/3 "2011-07-04T00:52:18Z")
> [@](#): > > The body of a boy named Christian Choate, 13, had been found encased in cement and buried in a shallow grave in Lake County, Indiana. Police and prosecutors there alleged that he had been forced to live in a dog cage, and was kept naked except for a diaper. They alleged that his father, Riley Lowell Choate, 39, and his stepmother, Kimberly Leona Kubina, 45, had regularly beaten and kicked the boy, deprived him of food, and chained his hands to the top of the cage. They have been charged with murder, battery, neglect of a dependent and criminal confinement. They have pleaded not guilty There you go. Took a few years before the body was found and the investigation began. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/4 "2011-07-04T00:52:24Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > As in, the link isn’t working for me. Damn dial-up! R.O. for which the OP can’t be arsed to provide a summary. ---
**Author:** ![Lancia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lancia/32/17174_2.png) [@Lancia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lancia)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/5 "2011-07-04T01:18:40Z")
> [@omni-not](#): > > Words simply fail me on this one, and I’m usually a fairly jaded person. Me too. This. Is. Sickening. Perhaps this should be the basis of re-introducing public executions… ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/6 "2011-07-04T01:47:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > R.O. for which the OP can’t be arsed to provide a summary. I think in this case the O is not R at all. The O is completely justifable by the sheer incredibleness of this cruelty. So, bring on the O. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/7 "2011-07-04T02:09:13Z")
“Righteous” didn’t used to be a negative term. In this case, I think the O is indeed R, or if it isn’t, then “R” has no meaning. ETA: I just realized “R” probably mean “recreational” rather that “righteous”… Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/8 "2011-07-04T02:41:00Z")
Oh duh. For some reason I too forgot that R stands for recreational and not righteous. Well, whatever it is I think this is something OK to be outraged at. ---
**Author:** ![omni-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8dc957/32.png) [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/9 "2011-07-04T02:50:55Z")
Forgive my ignorance, but I still can’t make heads or tails of **John Mace** ’s post…🙂 Getting back to the subject at hand, I believe this case is a perfect example of the gross ineptitude of Child Protective Services in many States today; the sore-excuses-for-human- beings parents shouldn’t stand trial alone in this matter. This should definitely serve as a wake-up call, but I am under NO illusion that things will change whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/10 "2011-07-04T04:22:58Z")
That is seriously fucked up. The whole diary/letter thing would be unbelievable if used as a fictional device. What boggles my mind isn’t that there’s one sick, deranged individual who would torture their own kid like that…but two of them. I don’t know why but I’m almost curious how that even happens. Accident? Gradual acclimation? Did they mean to find a fellow psychopath to help with their child murder and mental scarring fantasies? ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/11 "2011-07-04T05:01:24Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Did they mean to find a fellow psychopath to help with their child murder and mental scarring fantasies? If it’s true that 4% of the population are sociopaths then there are over 12 million in the US alone. Its easier to wind up with a sociopath than it is to guess the winning number at a roulette spin. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/12 "2011-07-04T05:04:30Z")
> [@omni-not](#): > > Forgive my ignorance, but I still can’t make heads or tails of **John Mace** ’s post…🙂 Not only is your OP totally zzzzzzzs recreational outrage, but you also had to go ahead and just drop a link without a summary, as if we were all waiting for you to give us required reading assignments. Maybe you should keep to MPSIMS. ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/13 "2011-07-04T06:59:43Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > That is seriously fucked up. The whole diary/letter thing would be unbelievable if used as a fictional device. What boggles my mind isn’t that there’s one sick, deranged individual who would torture their own kid like that…but two of them. I don’t know why but I’m almost curious how that even happens. Accident? Gradual acclimation? Did they mean to find a fellow psychopath to help with their child murder and mental scarring fantasies? Ever read _A Child Called “It”_? It’ll curl your hair. I threw the book away after reading it because I couldn’t even stand to look at the cover any more. This case reminds me a lot of that, just sociopathic hatred directed against one child for no reason, with the major difference being that David Pelzer somehow survived and became a functional adult and Christian Choate will never have that chance. Add this case to Baby P and Jamie Bulger on the list of “Things I wish I never Googled.” ---
**Author:** ![scratch\_llll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@scratch\_llll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scratch_llll)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/14 "2011-07-04T07:14:58Z")
Ordinarily I don’t want to beat people until thier eyes explode but there are exceptions. I think that’s a defense mechanism to keep from thinking about all the hurt the boy suffered though. Poor little guy. ---
**Author:** ![omni-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8dc957/32.png) [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/15 "2011-07-04T13:09:47Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Not only is your OP totally zzzzzzzs recreational outrage, but you also had to go ahead and just drop a link without a summary, as if we were all waiting for you to give us required reading assignments. > > Maybe you should keep to MPSIMS. I’m assuming you are being somewhat facetious. ‘_Recreational outrage_’: is it specified somewhere that posts in the **BBQ Pit** must in any way contain such element to be accepted and valid? I felt the ‘outrage’ part was more than fulfilled in this case. As for the recreational tone, I’ll let you be the judge of it. _you also had to go ahead and just drop a link without a summary, as if we were all waiting for you to give us required reading assignments._ This is where I think the facetious comes into play. ‘A link without a summary’: seriously now?? the text is ONE page long. We’re not exactly in _War and Peace_ territory here. Perhaps the next time, I should accompany the link with a warning along the following lines: CAUTION: Related text does NOT fit on the back of a postage stamp. You have been warned. One question, though: if you consider each link as a reading assignment, WTF are you doing on the Internet? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/16 "2011-07-04T13:18:15Z")
You don’t need to provide Cliff Notes, but it is considered courtesy to give a sentence or two about what the article is that we are to click on. For example, I can’t handle reading about child abuse, so I was glad that **Acid Lamp** provided a quick snippet so I could glance at it and choose not to click. ---
**Author:** ![omni-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8dc957/32.png) [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/17 "2011-07-04T13:36:22Z")
Thank you for the clarification, **IvoryTowerDenizen**. For the past several years, I’ve been an on and off contributor, so I’m obviously not up to snuff on the latest Netiquette developments. My bad. And you are right about the subject matter being a sensitive one for many people. A summing up sentence or two would have been appropriate. You live, you learn. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/18 "2011-07-04T14:37:48Z")
> [@omni-not](#): > > ‘_Recreational outrage_’: is it specified somewhere that posts in the **BBQ Pit** must in any way contain such element to be accepted and valid? I felt the ‘outrage’ part was more than fulfilled in this case. As for the recreational tone, I’ll let you be the judge of it. There’s a lot of awful things that happen in the world, and for whatever reason, some people like to post them in the pit so that the rest of the board can loudly express their disapproval of things that pretty much every sane person strongly disapproves of, such as fathers keeping their children in cages and then beating them to death. There’s usually a lot of posts like post #14, with (sometimes bizarrely elaborate and detailed) fantasies of doing bodily harm to the perpetrators. That genre of thread is “Recreational Outrage”, I’m pretty sure there’s no rule against it, but it strikes a lot of dopers as kinda silly, so they usually drop by to point it out. > [@omni-not](#): > > And you are right about the subject matter being a sensitive one for many people. A summing up sentence or two would have been appropriate. I think the point is that the Dope isn’t a link aggregation service. Its a place to discuss, so if your going to start a thread with a link, you should also make some effort to start a discussion. If you’d put the stuff in post #9 in the OP, then I doubt anyone would have given you grief, since the role of CPS is an actual interesting topic that can be discussed, while about the simple fact that some guy beat his kid to death, there isn’t much to say, since I’m guessing we’re all pretty much on the same page regarding murdering children. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/19 "2011-07-05T01:25:17Z")
This is horribly sad and tragic and reminds me once again not to read stuff like this… It reminds me a lot of the Phoenix Sinclair case - also a sad, terrible case of child abuse and a system that failed her tragically. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/20 "2011-07-05T09:01:16Z")
As horrible and tragic as this story is, I would be fascinated to learn more about it - the circumstances that lead to the child being imprisoned in this way. The article sort of implies that the stepmother was the instigator - i’d be interested in reading about their relationship, how she got the boy’s father to agree to this sort of thing, and what was happening to the other children in the house. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768.md?page=2)