# The Christian Choate case: positively sickening **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 4, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768 "2011-07-04T00:36:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/21 "2011-07-05T10:51:42Z")
> [@omni-not](#): > > Words simply fail me on this one, and I’m usually a fairly jaded person. It sure is one of the worst RO I read here. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/22 "2011-07-05T10:56:34Z")
> [@omni-not](#): > > Getting back to the subject at hand, I believe this case is a perfect example of the gross ineptitude of Child Protective Services in many States today; I’m not seeing this. It seems that almost nobody even knew the child was living there. How would the CPS has been aware of the situation? The CPS (or whatever equivalent in other countries) always gets heat. They’re generally damned if they do, and damned if they don’t. Generally poorly paid, generally underfunded, generally overworked. All that for doing a very difficult job, and a thankless one at that, since again they’re always criticized, regardless of what they do. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/23 "2011-07-05T11:46:41Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As horrible and tragic as this story is, I would be fascinated to learn more about it - the circumstances that lead to the child being imprisoned in this way. The article sort of implies that the stepmother was the instigator - i’d be interested in reading about their relationship, how she got the boy’s father to agree to this sort of thing, and what was happening to the other children in the house. His sister watched it all happen and ever since has lived in fear of being killed. When the authorities finally found her brother’s body she begged to be taken away from the parents and be put elsewhere (which, if I recall, is what happened). You see, this happened in my area. As part of employment, I have been to that trailer park. I undoubtedly walked by that boy’s grave multiple times. I will give you links to our local papers. You can search for more information there, I just don’t want to hear any more about it, I’ve heard too much. [Northwest Indiana Times](http://www.nwitimes.com/) [Post-Tribune](http://posttrib.suntimes.com/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![omni-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8dc957/32.png) [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/24 "2011-07-05T13:49:13Z")
My question is (well, ONE of many questions that come to mind): How on Earth will they be able to form an impartial jury to hear of such a case? Moving it to a different county, or even a different State for that matter, wouldn’t help… BTW, I really feel for you, **Broomstick** ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/25 "2011-07-05T14:20:16Z")
I’m so sorry **Broomstick**. You don’t deserve to be exposed to such an atrocity… ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/26 "2011-07-05T15:22:31Z")
Well, it’s not like I saw the actual body or anything… but it’s a trailer park full of families with kids, one of the better ones socially even if financially a lot of the people are poor. Just horrible to think this boy was in a cage where he surely could hear the other kids playing outside and having fun… ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/27 "2011-07-05T15:46:45Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > What boggles my mind isn’t that there’s one sick, deranged individual who would torture their own kid like that…but two of them. I don’t know why but I’m almost curious how that even happens. Accident? Gradual acclimation? Did they mean to find a fellow psychopath to help with their child murder and mental scarring fantasies? The psychological term is [folie à deux](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folie_%C3%A0_deux), literally “madness of two.” Such cases are among the worst–two people sharing a psychotic belief. ---
**Author:** ![omni-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8dc957/32.png) [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/28 "2011-07-06T13:14:13Z")
Yesterday: 1. Casey Anthony trial: the accused is found not guilty: large part of the country left stunned 2. Turcotte trial in Quebec (the cardiologist accused of murdering his two little children – 3 and 5 years old – a fact he has admitted committing) : the accused is found not guilty by reason of mental instability at the time of the crime : large part of the province left stunned Yes, juries CAN be unpredictable. And that has me worried, in the present case ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/29 "2011-07-06T13:34:27Z")
> [@omni-not](#): > > My question is (well, ONE of many questions that come to mind): How on Earth will they be able to form an impartial jury to hear of such a case? What is the definition of “impartial jury” in the USA (serious question)? I guess it isn’t “someone stating he doesn’t feel strongly one way of the other about torture and murder of children”? ---
**Author:** ![omni-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8dc957/32.png) [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/30 "2011-07-06T13:41:38Z")
> [@omni-not](#): > > Yesterday: > > 1. Casey Anthony trial: the accused is found not guilty: large part of the country left stunned > > 2. Turcotte trial in Quebec (the cardiologist accused of murdering his two little children – 3 and 5 years old – a fact he has admitted committing) : the accused is found not guilty by reason of mental instability at the time of the crime : large part of the province left stunned > > Yes, juries CAN be unpredictable. And that has me worried, in the present case Actually, that should read Not RESPONSIBLE by reason of mental instability. He’s obviously guilty… just not responsible! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/31 "2011-07-06T13:43:13Z")
> [@omni-not](#): > > 1. Casey Anthony trial: the accused is found not guilty: large part of the country left stunned Apparently in that case there was the possibility that the little girl had died accidentally and the death was concealed, which is _not_ murder (concealing a death is a crime). The prosecution was not able to eliminate this possibility to the satisfaction of the jury, thus there was a “reasonable doubt” that a murder had occurred. In which case the jury acted properly even if that pisses off the general public. I will also point out she was found not guilty of _murder_ - she was found guilty of perjury, and may still be guilty of something like concealing a death or improperly burying a body. > [@clairobscur](#): > > What is the definition of “impartial jury” in the USA (serious question)? I guess it isn’t “someone stating he doesn’t feel strongly one way of the other about torture and murder of children”? It means the jury is composed of people who have not already decided who is and isn’t guilty in a matter. Frequently, that also means someone who knows little about the crime in question. That is why trials are sometimes moved to a different venue - certain crimes are either so heinous or so well publicized that it’s nearly impossible to find an inpartial jury in the local community. Moving a trial in that manner requires a judicial hearing on its own, a proper case has to be made that the move is necessary. An effort will be made to move the trial no further than necessary to find that acceptable jury pool. An alternative to a jury trial is available, called a _bench trial_, where right to trial by jury is waived and the matter is tried solely before a judge. This might also be used when it’s hard to find an acceptable jury thought in the US it’s uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/32 "2011-07-06T14:09:23Z")
That’s my home state for you. Also home of the Sylvia Likens case, and a bigger meth problem than you could shake 49 sticks at. Although frankly I’m more jaded than most, I’m well-acquainted with the dark side of human nature and don’t find these incidents surprising in the least. Are you naive or sheltered? I’ve read about so much child abuse that nothing surprises me anymore. Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/33 "2011-07-06T14:19:54Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > An alternative to a jury trial is available, called a _bench trial_, where right to trial by jury is waived and the matter is tried solely before a judge. This might also be used when it’s hard to find an acceptable jury thought in the US it’s uncommon. Is there ever a concern about not being able to find an impartial _judge_ for cases like this, or is it assumed that they will be professional enough to not be swayed by the media? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/34 "2011-07-06T14:52:31Z")
Judges with a conflict of interest or who feel they can’t impartially judge a case are supposed to recuse themselves. If there is suspicion that a judge is not sufficiently impartial/professional/without conflict of interest I’m pretty sure there’s a mechanism for dealing with that (possibly through an appeal of the verdict). ---
**Author:** ![omni-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8dc957/32.png) [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/35 "2011-07-06T15:49:11Z")
Just learned from the Jaycee Dugaard interview which will be broadcast on ABC Primetime next Sunday that authorities came **60** times to the abductor’s house in the 18 years she was held captive, and never once did they check the backyard where they would most probably have discovered her. History repeating itself. It turned out reasonably ‘well’ for her. Christian Choate didn’t have such luck. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/36 "2011-07-06T17:14:31Z")
Sadly, cases of children being tortured to death, though rare, do occur. The absolute worse I’ve ever read about is 4 year old Lattie McGee. I am not going to provide a link. Before you Google, be aware that it is positively heartbreaking. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/37 "2011-07-06T17:25:20Z")
> [@omni-not](#): > > Actually, that should read Not RESPONSIBLE by reason of mental instability. > > He’s obviously guilty… just not responsible! Actually, “not guilty” is technically correct. In Canada, to be guilty of a crime a person must have both committed the act, and have the required mental state. For example, to be guilty of murder, a person must have both killed someone, and have done so deliberately (or uncaring) and without reasonable excuse. A person who is legally found to be insane at the time of committing what would otherwise be a criminal action cannot be “guilty”, because they cannot have the mental element of the crime. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/38 "2011-07-06T18:12:25Z")
Fuck these people. I’m going to to go home tonight and hug my 16-month-old. And I’m going to start another baby-picture thread in MPSIMS. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![omni-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8dc957/32.png) [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/39 "2011-07-06T18:21:54Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Actually, “not guilty” is technically correct. > > In Canada, to be guilty of a crime a person must have both committed the act, and have the required mental state. For example, to be guilty of murder, a person must have both killed someone, and have done so deliberately (or uncaring) and without reasonable excuse. > > A person who is legally found to be insane at the time of committing what would otherwise be a criminal action cannot be “guilty”, because they cannot have the mental element of the crime. The official verdict was ‘Not criminally responsible because of a mental disorder’ ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768/40 "2011-07-06T18:29:23Z")
I was wondering when this thread would show up. I composed one myself when I first read about it, then talked myself out of posting it. I try to avoid RO stuff but this one got past my filter. It really is just about unbelievable. CPS had been visiting this “family” for years, even before Christian was born. He had been going to school like a normal kid, then he was pulled out to be home schooled. My fucking God, are there absolutely no rules for home schooling? Someone reported the family again for holding the boy a prisoner, I guess they let him out long enough for an appearance before the case worker who checked it off “unsubstantiated” then back in the cage he went. If I were that case worker I’d kill myself. The stepmother gave him home school assignments while he was in the cage. Topics like, “why do you still want to see your real mother? Why can’t you get over her?” Beyond sick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christian-choate-case-positively-sickening/587768.md?page=3)