# The "Christians" are coming! The "Christians" are coming! **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 12, 2021, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304 "2021-07-12T13:42:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/201 "2021-11-01T16:48:18Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Which however has always been kind of odd to me – from the NT, taken literally, the End Time tribulation (a) happens on God’s own schedule that humans can’t know or alter and (b) not only is _inevitable_ (even if some denominations think it’s escapable) but _is predestined to end with the triumph of Jesus no matter what_. > > So to paraphrase Captain Kirk, what does God need with a President? In Christianity, there is a strong tension between what ought to be and what is actually happening. To use one example, Calvinists argue that God predestines everything, and that everything that happens in life is pre-ordained by God (as John Piper, one of the most diehard Calvinists, argues, even your tying of shoelaces is pre-determined by God long in advance.) Yet you never see Calvinists saying their kids don’t need to wear seatbelts in cars, or saying someone can jump off a plane without a parachute. They take precautions as much as anyone else - and the reason is because deep down they know that at a certain level, if they don’t take action to lead to Outcome XYZ, Outcome XYZ will not happen. Similarly, many Christians will say God is in control, but they will vote for a “pro-God” president like Trump to actually make things happen because they don’t “trust” that God will give them the conservative Republican outcomes they want to see happen. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/202 "2021-11-01T17:22:06Z")
Moderating: > [@JRDelirious](#): > > These folks seem to think the Millennium is going to consist of the United States of America, transformed into a monarchy under Jesus, ruling the world as is. > [@Temporary\_Name](#): > > There, I corrected your sentence for you. (Purely for humorous purposes.) @Temporary_Name, it’s an absolute rule that you can’t change someone’s quotes to change the meaning or to place emphasis where you prefer. You can quote someone’s full quote as above and then type your own preferred sentence within your own post but not as a quote of someone else. You can bold a portion of someone’s quote and include language that the emphasis added is your own. You can abbreviate a quote by adding elipsis… like this… but you cannot alter another poster’s quote under that poster’s name. Please don’t do this again. Not a warning, only guidance. ---
**Author:** ![Temporary\_Name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Temporary\_Name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Temporary_Name)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/203 "2021-11-01T17:52:25Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > They take precautions as much as anyone else - and the reason is because deep down they know that at a certain level, if they don’t take action to lead to Outcome XYZ, Outcome XYZ will not happen. > > Similarly, many Christians will say God is in control, but they will vote for a “pro-God” president like Trump to actually make things happen because they don’t “trust” that God will give them the conservative Republican outcomes they want to see happen. Besides current day believers saying they are just voting their conscious when they are clearly deferring to their political bias, there is a much better example of this concept (in my opinion of course). I thought that C.S. Lewis did a very good job of showing in the Narnia books how God’s true and pure will is often the result of believers doing what they would rather not – but know to be the correct behavior in the moment. There are even examples of Aslan having to delay His plan because one or another is not on board yet with the plan. I realize it is not exactly a Gospel example, but I am inclined to give good, sincere, thinking people a much wider birth than a someone known to be partisan first and only then justify those actions with religious verbiage. This also gives me an opportunity to list my single favorite theological insight from Mr. Lewis. In the final book of the series, **The Last Battle** there is an enemy Calormine (sp?) who is essentially an Arab Muslim who ends up in heaven with the true believers in Jesus/Aslan. It is explained that the supposed enemy and non-believer lived by the principles [of Christianity] and never lied or committed other serious sins and that his actions revealed his true beliefs because they grew out of those beliefs. I am not claiming to know the mind of God, but I would assume quite a few modern day Christians would hear from Jesus were there to be a final judgement today: “Depart from me, I never knew you” even after saying to their creator: “Didn’t we cast out demons in your name, and didn’t we vote the straight Republican Party in your name? We belong to you, we are your lambs. Your second amendment lambs with assault rifles to blast the evil doers who would usher in Socialism!!” ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/204 "2021-11-03T03:18:55Z")
Trump said on the record once, just once, that he was opposed to abortion. That’s all some of them need. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/205 "2021-11-03T03:53:17Z")
A lot more than once. [He became the first and only president to appear and speak at the March for Life rally](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-becomes-first-sitting-president-attend-march-life-rally-n1122246). He kept talking about the judges he would appoint to the Supreme Court, which the pro-lifers all understood as codespeak for “overturn Roe.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/206 "2021-11-03T03:54:35Z")
That gets into how free will and and predestination are not actually contradictory. Sure, the entire future is ordained, but you don’t know which way it is ordained, so it behooves you to act as if you have free will. And thus, well, you do have free will. God just knows what you’re going to do ahead of time. Or, to put it in a non-religious way: We do have free will. It just so happens that the results of that free will have already occurred if the universe is deterministic. It would be ridiculous, for example, to not punish criminals because we know that they would have performed the crime anyways. Sure, a lot of Calvinists would never admit the above, but it is how they act, same as this is how the non-religious who believe in a deterministic universe will act. ---
**Author:** ![Temporary\_Name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Temporary\_Name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Temporary_Name)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/207 "2022-08-18T11:42:59Z")
I will revive this thread because this morning I read two two articles on the influence of some of these “Christian” activists that are probably not worth their own thread-- but are interesting and informative none the less. My question after reading both articles boils down to How are these real life candidates in a Twenty-First Century world?? And- And since they are genuine candidates despite all reason, why are they not hiding these consultants instead of featuring them??? > **[Doug Mastriano campaign "prophet" Julie Green: Political executions are...](https://www.mediamatters.org/qanon-conspiracy-theory/doug-mastriano-campaign-prophet-julie-green-political-executions-are-coming)** I almost can believe in a conspiracy theory after reading this. I could believe she was planted on this campaign by a left leaning operative who wants to throw the election for Mastriano. > **[Ron DeSantis Gives Extremist Candidates a Big Embrace | Right Wing Watch](https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/ron-desantis-gives-extremist-candidates-a-big-embrace/)** > > Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, a 2024 presidential hopeful whose bullying culture-warrior persona and embrace of former President Donald Trump have endeared This one is a little concerning because DeSantis does hold office and does have national sway and power (and according to our Republican Gubernatorial candidate here in AZ “Big Dick Energy”). I have been thinking that the three Republican Trump supported statewide candidates here in Arizona (Lake, Finchem, and Masters) should be easily beatable, but these supporters do have some sway. Of course the candidates keep playing to the base and alienating moderates, which is good for us on the left. Any comments upon these two articles? (Which are beyond belief to me.) ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/208 "2022-08-19T02:16:54Z")
I can’t figure out where these people come from, either. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/209 "2022-08-19T02:25:06Z")
They were there all the time. Just that back in the days they’d be stuck in a corner of the park hading out Chick tracts and yelling from on top of a soapbox to passerby, or at best running a storefront “temple”, or on in local radio at 3am. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/210 "2022-08-19T04:59:35Z")
Or more recently, public access, which was the lunatic fringe of You Tube before we had You Tube. ---
**Author:** ![Temporary\_Name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Temporary\_Name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Temporary_Name)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/211 "2022-08-19T05:32:43Z")
I had forgotten about public access television, thanks for the reminder! That is exactly what the quality of Julie Green’s “prophesies” remind me of. I certainly hope our larger statewide populations see through all these con artists and elect the Democrats in each race in all the states! ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/212 "2022-08-19T05:33:38Z")
Wanna watch a nutjob? Check out Kat Kerr. She has to be seen to be believed, and even then, it’s unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/213 "2022-08-19T06:14:47Z")
I’ve been following Kat Kerr (in an opposition way) for a while. Some of her wild prophecies: Claiming that God told her the Republicans would win every single presidential election from 2016-2036 (Trump in 2016 and 2020, then Pence in 2024 and 2028, then Pence’s veep in 2032 and 2036)…also claiming God told her Trump would win in a “landslide” in 2020 but then suddenly reversing it to “a landslide means a shower of pebbles that reveals the corruption underneath” when it became clear no Trump landslide was coming. There is near-zero quality control in evangelical prophecy these days; just like how Charlie Shamp claimed in June 2018 that God told him the Republicans would gain 9 Senate seats in that November’s midterms. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/214 "2022-08-19T12:37:57Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > There is near-zero quality control in evangelical prophecy these days What would “effective” quality control on evangelical prophecy look like? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/215 "2022-08-19T12:40:48Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > > [@Velocity](#): > > > > There is near-zero quality control in evangelical prophecy these days > > What would “effective” quality control on evangelical prophecy look like? - Point out the long list of failed prophecies and the non-existent list of prophecies that actually occurred. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/216 "2022-08-19T12:51:52Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > > [@k9bfriender](#): > > > > What would “effective” quality control on evangelical prophecy look like? - > > Point out the long list of failed prophecies and the non-existent list of prophecies that actually occurred. …and resulting in the failed prophets losing viewers and contributions to the point they go off the air; if not an outright “cancel campaign” from the rest of the Evangesphere. The likelihood of that happening is left as a futile exercise to the reader. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/217 "2022-08-19T12:53:35Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > > [@running\_coach](#): > > > > > [@k9bfriender](#): > > > > > > What would “effective” quality control on evangelical prophecy look like? - > > > > Point out the long list of failed prophecies and the non-existent list of prophecies that actually occurred. > > …and **resulting in the failed prophets losing viewers and contributions to the point they go off the air** ; if not an outright “cancel campaign” from the rest of the Evangesphere. > > The likelihood of that happening is left as a futile exercise to the reader. - I predict it won’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Pazu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pazu/32/15522_2.png) [@Pazu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pazu)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/218 "2022-08-19T15:26:30Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > What would “effective” quality control on evangelical prophecy look like? I would support some righteous divine smiting on false prophets. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/219 "2022-08-19T16:40:44Z")
A large roll of duct tape. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304/220 "2022-08-19T20:58:23Z")
> **[Public schools receive 'In God We Trust' poster donations as new Texas law...](https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/19/us/texas-schools-in-god-we-trust/index.html)** > > Texas school districts have begun receiving donated posters and framed copies of the national motto, "In God We Trust," that they will now be required to display in accordance with a new state law. Are you fucking kidding me? Get The Satanic Temple on the line, stat! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-christians-are-coming-the-christians-are-coming/946304.md?page=12)