# The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [December 12, 2002, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336 "2002-12-12T21:26:20Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@SwimmingwithChickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SwimmingwithChickens)
#### Post date: [December 12, 2002, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/1 "2002-12-12T21:26:20Z")
Has anyone else read this chronicle? My father turned me on to it and I simply can’t put the series down (I’m on The Illearth War). What is it that is so addictive about this series? It certainly isn’t the hero (he is a very dark and cynical character.) Does anyone else share a love of these books?
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### Author:  [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)
#### Post date: [December 12, 2002, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/2 "2002-12-12T21:46:39Z")
Oh Yes!
I read all six books back in the late 80’s. When I wasn’t working, driving, or sleeping, I was reading those books. I don’t know how Donaldson does it, but it’s like I was there. The land is alive!
Later on I read the Mordant’s Need books. Those were good, too, but not on the scale of the Covenant books.
Over the years I thought of how one could make a movie of those books. At first I thought Anime would be the way to go but with CG being what it is these days…
Enjoy!
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### Author:  [@CaptEgo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptEgo)
#### Post date: [December 12, 2002, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/3 "2002-12-12T21:49:15Z")
Love would be a strong word. Many years ago (or so it seems to me) I burned through the first series in the course of one week. It certainly was compelling and and suspect it was largely because the world was so vivid.
Upon reflection I came to realize that Donaldson’s language tended towards the extremely florid end of the scale (on occasion descending into the realm of the nonsensical).
The forward momentum of the books is impressive however and it’s the first series that I read _despite_ the main character (I was watching the story over Covenant’s shoulder wishing that he would just shut the hell up and move on). Also on the plus side was the clearly _independent_ plot and character elements Donaldson used (he’s never been bitch slapped as badly as poor old Terry Brooks).
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### Author:  [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)
#### Post date: [December 12, 2002, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/4 "2002-12-12T22:01:23Z")
As CaptEgo said, love would be a strong word. I enjoyed the series, but it is not in my list of “must reads.” The flawed hero is an interesting concept, but got old for me. Too often I wanted to tell covenant to get over himself.
Still, there are some memerable characters and overall I enjoyed it.
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### Author:  [@Sycorax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sycorax)
#### Post date: [December 12, 2002, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/5 "2002-12-12T22:10:51Z")
Yes, I loved them! Mac and Ego said it for me – Donaldson’s descriptions made that fantasy land so real for me. I don’t recall Convenant being dark and cynical, but it’s been awhile since I read them - I might have a different reaction now. Maybe I should read them again! I haven’t tried any of his others. I wish he’d kept on with the Convenant Chronicles.
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### Author:  [@NE\_Texan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NE_Texan)
#### Post date: [December 12, 2002, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/6 "2002-12-12T22:13:04Z")
I really liked the series - the setting was well-drawn, intriguing, and many of the characters were fascinating.
But not Covenant.
I kept hoping against hope (as I have every time that I’ve reread it, to no avail) that someone would just kill Covenant, hijack the story, and get on with the book.
Barring that, I kept hoping someone would at least slap some major sense into him.
Because of this, I found the second series much more readable than the first - somehow he’s found a clue between the two series. (Granted, the first series is about him finding this clue, but still…)
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### Author:  [@CastleAnthrax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CastleAnthrax)
#### Post date: [December 12, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/7 "2002-12-12T22:35:48Z")
They were awful. Just awful. The worst books not forced upon me by an English teacher. Worse than Ethan Frome.
While I will agree that they are very vivid, for some reason reading them cut my page-per-minute rate to the point where it felt like actual work to finish the first book. I gave up somewhere in the second one.
Also, seriously derivative world. Terry Brooks did it better and people hate him (her?) for it.
HennaDancer
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### Author:  [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2002, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/8 "2002-12-13T01:27:50Z")
I loved them in high school. I recently reread them and found that I still loved them, for completely different reasons. In high school I spent the whole time wanting to slap him, for obvious reasons, but this time I understood him a little better.
I still read the books _despite_ the guy’s use of language. The thing is that it’s so obviously intentional; I guess it’s “epic”. His other books aren’t Thesaurus Direct like that. (Although I confess to liking the way “roynish” falls off my tongue, except I could never use it to describe something that wasn’t an ur-vile.)
I don’t like the Second Chronicles nearly as much - _The Wounded Land_ is powerful, and the third book (_White Gold Wielder_?) picks up some, but that second Odyssey thing is kind of a drag. Thought I’d like it better this time, but nope, and it dosen’t stand up to the power of the characters in the first chronicles. Bannor and Foamfollower and Mhoram (sob!).
I also love his Gap series, in a completely, totally different way. Or did in high school - currently about to pick them up again, we’ll see how I feel about it this time around. Been doing that a lot lately; very illuminating. (Very unflattering around the Mercedes Lackey mark, let me tell you. 🙂 )
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### Author:  [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2002, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/9 "2002-12-13T03:38:14Z")
I love the series. I’ve read them twice and liked them even more the second time around. Covenant is too despairingly human for some folk, but that’s the beauty of the series for me. He tries and fails sometimes; othertimes he doesn’t even try.
I agree with **Zsofia** , **The One Tree** , takes a lot of effort to get through, but to me that only signifies how arduous the journey was for the group. I suffered with them through every ordeal and letdown.
Overall, I thought it was the best written (despite Donaldson’s penchant for pet words. “excoriate” has a permanent place in my memory.) fantasy series I’d read until I stumbled upon **Gene Wolfe** ’s **Book of the New Sun** a couple of years ago. Some truly memorable and original characters stay with you long after you finish the last book.
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### Author:  [@Jurhael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurhael)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2002, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/10 "2002-12-13T04:17:16Z")
_Raises hand_ MEEEEEE! MEEEE! I DO! I DO! For the same reasons others listed. Course it helped that I liked the vast majority of the characters.
I agree with the New Sun stuff too. I found that completly by chance and I don’t regret it.
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### Author:  [@Sigmundex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmundex)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2002, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/11 "2002-12-13T07:22:19Z")
I’ve read them all 3 times now… well, wait, this last time I kinda quit in the middle of The One Tree. That one is hard to get through for me, especially considering that as soon as they escape the Kasreyn you know where the story is going, and it’s not good. The first time I read them I was so disappointed by the end of that book I didn’t even want to read the last one. For what it’s worth, I’ve been to one Chronicles fan website that insists SRD has committed to writing a third trilogy, and the raging debate at this point is where the story goes from here. Some think it will be a “prequel”, setting up the original books by telling the story of Berek, while others think it will be centered around Covenant’s son, and still others have different ideas. I guess we’ll see…
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### Author:  [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2002, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/12 "2002-12-13T07:24:09Z")
Ah, the books that turned me on to reading as a Wee-MeanJoe.
Cannot recommend The Gap series highly enough either.
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### Author:  [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2002, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/13 "2002-12-13T08:38:11Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Zsofia \*
> \*\*
> I don’t like the Second Chronicles nearly as much - _The Wounded Land_ is powerful, and the third book (_White Gold Wielder_?) picks up some, but that second Odyssey thing is kind of a drag. Thought I’d like it better this time, but nope, and it dosen’t stand up to the power of the characters in the first chronicles. Bannor and Foamfollower and Mhoram (sob!).
>
> \*\*
I liked the way he managed to make the Second Chronicles much darker, it takes a vivid imagination to make something beautiful and just corrupt and destroy it 3 books later. I thought the imagery and the variety in _The One Tree_ was entertaining, I had no problem enjoying that one. I agree the characters aren’t as compelling in the Second Chronicles, but it’s part of the theme of the second series. The characters in the first series were beacons of hope in despairing times, whereas the characters of the second series are fundamentally hopeless and corrupted. And those three characters you mention do appear briefly in book 4.
Myself, I think Robert Jordan’s Ogier character from the _Wheel of Time_, Loial, is alot like Foamfollower, so Foamfollower lives on for me in that way.
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### Author:  [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2002, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/14 "2002-12-13T13:47:03Z")
A friend of mine turned me onto the series in high school ('86 or so). I loved them, and Thomas. I understood him, and I still do.
I think my favorite character, though, was Troy. He and I share something in common. I don’t think in pictures. Ever. Until I was almost through my teens I thought the phrase, “Mind’s Eye” was just a figure of speech. I didn’t know people saw pictures in their heads. I do, however, have an excellent sense of spatial relations. I bonded with Troy because, despite the fact that he was blind, his mastery of spatial relations allowed him to be an outstanding general AND to be a cocky prick about it.
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### Author:  [@CastleAnthrax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CastleAnthrax)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2002, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/15 "2002-12-13T14:34:26Z")
[QUOTEOverall, I thought it was the best written (despite Donaldson’s penchant for pet words. “excoriate” has a permanent place in my memory.) fantasy series I’d read until I stumbled upon **Gene Wolfe** ’s **Book of the New Sun** a couple of years ago. Some truly memorable and original characters stay with you long after you finish the last book. \*\*[/QUOTE]
Wow. This was the only other book or set that had the same effect. My brain must be fundamentally differently structured than yours.
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### Author:  [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2002, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/16 "2002-12-13T14:59:18Z")
\
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by HennaDancer \*
> \*\*Wow. This was the only other book or set that had the same effect. My brain must be fundamentally differently structured than yours. \*\*
OK - one last test. 😉
If you like **Terry Goodkind** ’s awful writing then we are literary polar opposites, and I’m absolutely OK with that. 😃
\
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### Author:  [@CastleAnthrax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CastleAnthrax)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2002, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/17 "2002-12-13T15:03:42Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by unwashed brain \*
> \*\*\
>
> OK - one last test. 😉
>
> If you like **Terry Goodkind** ’s awful writing then we are literary polar opposites, and I’m absolutely OK with that. 😃
>
> \ \*\*
I don’t know that I’ve tried his or her books. My favorites are Guy Gavriel Kay, Charles de Lint, Diana Wynne Jones, ELizabeth Scarborough, Esther Friesner, and of course Heinlein gets the nostalgia vote.
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### Author:  [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2002, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/18 "2002-12-13T15:21:29Z")
I like 'em a lot when I read them in the 80’s. I do remember wishing they were shorter; if they were edited down to maybe two duologies into of two trilogies I would have enjoyed them even more, probably.
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2002, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/19 "2002-12-13T17:14:30Z")
I first read the first _Covenant_ trilogy in 1981. At the time, I felt as morally compromised as he was, and as I was trying to recover some sort of inner integrity, Thomas Covenant was just what I needed. And the richness of the Land, its people, and its own magic - Revelstone, Kevin’s Watch, Doom’s Retreat, the Council of Lords, the Bloodguard, the Ranyhyn, the Staff of Law, Mhoram, Elena, Bannor, Saltheart Foamfollower - great stuff. I’d almost rather go there than to Middle-Earth. 🙂
I thought the second trilogy started off well with _The Wounded Land_, and got bogged down after that. _The One Tree_ is riven with seemingly unintended contradictions, and besides, any book that has a chapter entitled “Black Mood” has some brickbats coming its way. And I found the trilogy’s end unsatisfying. Thomas Covenant _is_ the White Gold, Mhoram told him in the previous trilogy; one would think that handing over the Ring to Lord Foul would simply be without effect, rather than conveying genuine power to Foul, while relying on trickery to lead Foul to his new defeat.
I think the _Gap_ quintet is Donaldson’s most intellectually interesting story, although I’m not sure I could slog through it a second time. One of the problems with it is that it’s in a world that’s very much the antithesis of the typical sword-and-sorcery universe that Donaldson’s readers, including me, were used to, and it’s not just a matter of liking greenery. When it comes right down to it, if an author wants to have his protagonist(s) save the world, it helps, from the reader’s POV, if it’s a world worth saving.
What we’re introduced to, in _The Real Story_, is a very rocks-and-vacuum sort of sci-fi world. I had a real problem _caring_ whether the bad guys won. And reading the books at roughly one-year intervals as they came out, it took me until about the third book to start figuring out the plotlines revolving around Warden Dios and Holt Fasner, and how they related to the Morn/Angus/Nick side of things. I also had a problem with feeling that I’d seen all the protagonists before. Morn Hyland was Terisa Morgan from _Mordant’s Need_, only a bit more so, while Nick Succorso and Angus Thermopyle seemed stolen from elsewhere: Nick instantly reminded me of Mack the Knife from _The Threepenny Opera_, and my image of Angus, from the very beginning, was that of Hayduke from Edward Abbey’s _The Monkeywrench Gang_.
Donaldson said up front that he intended to have Angus, Morn, and Nick repeatedly shift between roles of villian, victim, and rescuer. IMHO, Angus Thermopyle took over his story. There’s an old hymn that I’m willing to bet Donaldson, given his background, heard often while growing up. It’s got a line that goes, “The vilest offender who truly believes, that moment from Jesus a pardon receives.” In Angus, I think Donaldson found his “vilest offender,” and after awhile, the story of his redemption kinda took over. As a result, Nick (who wasn’t really all _that_ bad) was crammed into the role of villian, with no room for escape, and so Donaldson finally had to kill him off early.
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### Author:  [@Tomcat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tomcat)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2002, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-chronicles-of-thomas-covenant-the-unbeliever/142336/20 "2002-12-13T17:27:56Z")
Covenant? Flippin’ pansy-assed whinner…ugh. **HennaDancer** you are not alone.
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