Better then that Shanara crap as far as ripoffs go, but still, very derivative of JRRT.
Oh, come on, it’s no more “derivative” of Tolkein than any fantasy that uses things like giants and trolls and such. It’s surprising how many people go, “well, there is a ring, and that’s derivative of Tolkein” as if the two rings are anything alike.
For what it is worth, I enjoyed the whole of the two trilogies, and am in the process of sucking down the third Chronicles (books 1 and 2 of which are out). I always enjoyed having to have a VERY good dictionary handy while reading Donaldson. And, once you get past the surface of the book (the utterly depressing sense that pervades most of the Chronicles), you will find it interesting to see how it proceeds. VERY unpredictable in my opinion.
The point to the books is that Donaldson was writing about an almost anti-hero. Here is this guy, and you can’t like him at all. He’s a depressed bum, who blames the world for his condition, who has developed this horribly skeptical realism to armor himself against his disease. Yet he is forced into a hero’s role, quite against his will. So the part of the books that is interesting isn’t the story line per se (which is where everyone gets all upset over the “derivative” nature of the books, ignoring in the process that Tolkein’s works were horribly derivative themselves in that sense). It’s the evolution of the underlying theme of possible redemption for Covenant. Can he, WILL he manage to morph his view of life and the world to make a better living for himself, not to mention save the inhabitants of a world he doesn’t even concede exists.
And much better than about 95% of what is written in the “fantasy” genre, especially stuff like Shannara (which is probably the definitive derivative of Tolkein [del]ripoff[/del] work.
A reluctant ring-bearer has many supernatural adventures as things go to shit around him. You are right, no relation at all.
To be fair, as I mentioned extensively in my OP, I think, so far, there’s at least as much Moorcock in the book as JRRT.
If anything, it’s maybe derivative of Wagner (much like Tolkien hisownself).
What else but a wedding ring is a guy likely to have with him at all times? Eyeglasses of Wild Magic That Destroy Peace? The Calculator-Wristwatch of Destiny?
FWIW, Tolkien (who will always be my first love) didn’t exactly invent the whole trouble with a magic ring schtick, either.
As far as Covenant goes, I loved the first three books when I read them in high school (back when they first came out, in the '70’s), but I just loved me some juicy angst back then, and Thomas Covenant’s endless round of fucked up behavior, remorse, self-pity, shouting, stomping around and generally adolescent carrying-on really appealed to me. I even liked the overblown vocabulary, and I adored Foamfollower. I have somewhat less patience with the series now that I am ( a lot) older, and I find Stephen R. Donaldson’s writing downright annoying at times, particularly his tendency to re-use certain exotic words over and over again. (I read the second series of three books, and am working on the not-yet-completed fourth and final series, but I think everything after the first three books sucks.)
IMHO, Ogre, if you don’t like *Lord Foul’s Bane * yet, you aren’t likely to feel better about the series as it progresses, but if you want a giggle, you might find this amusing.
Sorry. Double posted.
I also meant to break the link to Fantasy Bedtime Hour in case it could be considered “work unsafe,” but I missed the edit window. My apologies if I got anyone in trouble.
Yeah, that just about covers it all. It won’t get any better, either.
That’s hysterical!
hmm magic rings
very unlikely heros
long distant journeys by foot in spite of obvious easier methods
aaaaaaaand the land
you have dwarves in the form of the rock worship dudes
elves in the form of wood worshiper dudes
you have a fucked up swamp with weird dangerous critters and mind games near the end
you have the blasted wasted lands way near the end
you have the evil powerful lord guy who people never see who sends out his servants (orcs kinda) to try and stop them the entire time and in spite of their obvious power they can never stop a leper and a giant (granted the giant is all kindsa badass)
nah no reason at all to make a comparison.
dont get me wrong I do think there is a ton of great stuff in there.
I kind of enjoyed the first three, but it was at a time when my only access to fantasy was through the small selection at the local Waldons. There just wasn’t much fantasy available in a small town in PA in the early 80s.
I doubt I would have read the rest of them now, when I have so much selection.
Make that the last 8. We’re 2 books into the last chronicles of Thomas Covenant now.
I love the series - I consider it my second favorite after Gene Wolfe’s Book of the New Sun. I’d say finish the fist book and if you’re not moved to buy the second then so be it.
The Sword of Shannara is the penultimate Tolkein ripoff, but even that’s a good read.
You misspelled “and should be thrown on the fire.” 
As I’d mentioned in the prior thread, the apparent similarities between the Land and other bog-standard fantasy worlds is intentional. Donaldson is not ripping off Tolkien (or Moorcock), he’s sending them up.
The similarity is there so that the readers get drawn in, thinking they’re reading another bog-standard fantasy – before getting kneecapped by Covenant’s antihero-ness.
It’s just not as well-conveyed in Lord Foul’s Bane, because Donaldson’s writing improved dramatically after this book. In later books, Covenant’s Unbelief is better conveyed and explained, and it is clearer what Donaldson is trying to say about retreating into a fantasy world instead of dealing with real-world problems.
Wait… what? Wolfe, Donaldson, … Brooks? Seriously, one of these things is not like the other.
A good read is not the same as a great series. I admit to having a great fondness for the first Shannara series - but this stems mainly from having read it in my youth. I’ve reread both Chronicles as an adult and found the emotional impact more powerful. I’m all set for a third reading in anticipation of the final book of the third series.
Currently wading through Tad Williams’ Shadowmarch which is barely holding my interest.
I had one of those in middle school. Fortunately we destroyed it by running over it with the ancient pick up truck of Ford. Pretty short adventure, all told.
As far as the CofTC, I loved it in high school. I re-read it last year and didn’t enjoy it nearly as much… I don’t think I’m going to go out of my way to read the third trilogy.
Hard to describe my feelings towards Covenant…not really love/hate, but there’s content that’s intriguing enough to make me wonder how it resolves.
One the one hand, you have really stupid names. The land is called “The Land.” The main villain is “Lord Foul.” Healing dirt is called “Hurtloam.” If it heals, shouldn’t it be “Healloam?”
You also have a setting that never advances in technology. Covenant and Linden Avery visit The Land over the course of 10,000 years, and the inhabitants never progress beyond stone knives. Every ethnic group is assigned to one nice and tidy characteristic. Woodhelvinen love trees. Stonedowners love stone. Horse people love horses. They hardly ever show interest in any other lifestyle. If any of them do, it’s because Lord Foul or one of his evil helpers corrupted them. In addition, all these stone age people have flowery, doctoral level vocabulary that would make Shakespeare scratch his head.
But this still draws me in. Mainly because Covenant and Avery shake things up and cause change. They take the dominant paradigm and unravel it. Example, Covenant is travelling with the nice perfect earth lovers, and they pass a stone formation arranged to look like the face of a past person of great importance. While the nice people marvel at how beautiful and remarkable it is, Covenant sneers and says it looks just like one of his fellow leper colonymates after her face rotted off, then spits at it.
So I like the flaw in the ointment, I guess.
I FEEL VINDICATED!!!
I read the first book when in college. HATED it. Couldn’t understand why the series was so popular. I remember the “high” point in the first book was when he raped someone :rolleyes: .
Forced myself to read the first book in the second (gag!) trilogy and found it did not improve. Decided life was too short to try to get through any more of this dreck.
“Yes, this is a fertile land, and we will thrive. We will rule over all this land, and we shall call it … ‘This Land’”
“I think we should call it ‘your grave’”
“Argh! Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal”
“Haha! Mine is an evil laugh”