# The CIA admits to using vaccination programs for spying **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 20, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845 "2014-05-20T17:21:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/1 "2014-05-20T17:21:08Z")
[The CIA is announcing](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/20/white-house-says-cia-will-stop-using-vaccination-programs-as-cover-for/?intcmp=latestnews) that it will no longer use vaccination programs as a cover for intelligence operations. So, it turns out that those paranoid Mideast conspiracy theories were right, and the friendly Western doctors really were CIA spooks (at least some of the time). _Sigh_ no wonder everybody hates the US. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/2 "2014-05-20T18:08:00Z")
I thought it was pretty well known that they confirmed bin Laden’s presence by getting DNA from known relatives during a vaccination sweep of his neighborhood. You know, I wanted bin Laden dead as much as the next person, but considering the number of actual vaccination workers who’ve been killed and the children who will die because people don’t trust the vaccination workers, I’d much rather the CIA had used some other infiltration technique. Even if it meant bin Laden was still alive. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/3 "2014-05-20T18:13:20Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > I thought it was pretty well known that they confirmed bin Laden’s presence by getting DNA from known relatives during a vaccination sweep of his neighborhood. > > You know, I wanted bin Laden dead as much as the next person, but considering the number of actual vaccination workers who’ve been killed and the children who will die because people don’t trust the vaccination workers, I’d much rather the CIA had used some other infiltration technique. Even if it meant bin Laden was still alive. You said it all. I can understand why the spooks didn’t, but I wish someone higher up had looked at it and pointed out the terrible precedent that would be set. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/4 "2014-05-20T18:39:04Z")
I dunno, people are always saying that if we do something such as this, it means we can’t use it again. But OBL was the #1 target for America for a decade. Isn’t it a good thing if we used it to get him? I mean, who are we saving the technique for if not him? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/5 "2014-05-20T19:08:36Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I dunno, people are always saying that if we do something such as this, it means we can’t use it again. But OBL was the #1 target for America for a decade. Isn’t it a good thing if we used it to get him? I mean, who are we saving the technique for if not him? We could save the technique for **vaccinating kids all over the Middle East and Africa who now might not get vaccinated because their parents are confirmed in their belief that vaccination programs are sometimes CIA plots** , that’s who we could save it for. Given a choice between putting a target on Bin Laden and putting a target on polio, I’d go for the latter. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/6 "2014-05-20T20:07:35Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I dunno, people are always saying that if we do something such as this, it means we can’t use it again. But OBL was the #1 target for America for a decade. Isn’t it a good thing if we used it to get him? I mean, who are we saving the technique for if not him? Hopefully nobody. No single person is worth losing the ability to vaccinate, and hopefully eliminate, the scourge of diseases like polio (and a variety of other diseases) from the world. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/7 "2014-05-20T21:10:26Z")
What they said. We were just about to kick polio’s figurative ass and now it’s just fucking surging back in Pakistan, plus this “proves” the conspiracy theorists right! WHO workers have been doing things like vaccinating their own grandkids in front of doubters who think the Western docs want to poison their kids, but this is a whole other problem. Now they’ll claim the CIA is taking children’s DNA for various evil purposes, or something. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/8 "2014-05-20T22:57:47Z")
Oh, I thought this was going to be about those mind-control nanobots that have been put in flu vaccines since 1997. I mean, everyone knows about _that_ one, right?? Right??? ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/9 "2014-05-20T23:58:01Z")
FWIW - if memory serves they did not confirm OBL was there using the vaccine program. They attempted to do so, but didn’t get access to the house. It is a shame - but makes little difference as my understanding is conspiracy theories are even worse in that part of the world. People won’t believe the CIA is telling the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/10 "2014-05-21T07:44:03Z")
Seems to me you should be more angry at the people who exposed a program that was working well, getting results, and making everybody happy, than with the people running the program. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/11 "2014-05-21T07:44:37Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I dunno, people are always saying that if we do something such as this, it means we can’t use it again. But OBL was the #1 target for America for a decade. Isn’t it a good thing if we used it to get him? I mean, who are we saving the technique for if not him? We’re supposed to be saving the technique for the doctors. Doctors and medics are granted extraordinary protections as long as they do not participate in hostilities. By pretending to be a doctor who is abusing that protection, the CIA put all doctors at risk. That’s why perfidy is a war crime. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/12 "2014-05-21T07:48:18Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > We’re supposed to be saving the technique for the doctors. Doctors and medics are granted extraordinary protections as long as they do not participate in hostilities. By pretending to be a doctor who is abusing that protection, the CIA put all doctors at risk. That’s why perfidy is a war crime. And if only Osama bin Laden had been so kind as to play by the “rules of war”, then we wouldn’t have had to go into Pakistan to kill him in the first place. The CIA didn’t put doctors at risk. The people who exposed the CIA put them at risk. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/13 "2014-05-21T08:24:34Z")
When you are using foreign doctors as operatives, and there are foreign people and foreign governments who have every incentive to expose such networks including jailing and torturing members of the conspiracy in order to expose it, do you seriously propose that nobody ever would have learned of the damn thing “if it weren’t for those meddling kids”? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/14 "2014-05-21T10:59:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And if only Osama bin Laden had been so kind as to play by the “rules of war”, then we wouldn’t have had to go into Pakistan to kill him in the first place. > > The CIA didn’t put doctors at risk. The people who exposed the CIA put them at risk. Bin Laden was responsible for his actions, not for ours. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/15 "2014-05-21T12:34:18Z")
It was an ingenious idea… that should have stayed an idea. I mean, at some point you have to draw a line that you don’t cross, because if you become your enemy in order to hunt your enemy, the world’s net gain is zero. It’s becoming harder and harder to distinguish the good guys from the bad guys any more. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/16 "2014-05-21T13:16:08Z")
OTOH there are already numbers of people who believe all kinds of paranoid things like the CIA invented AIDS or the Protocol of the Elders of Zion, and Truthers and Birthers and all the rest. So no matter what we do, some people will avoid vaccination because they think it is a conspiracy. The DNA collection attempt doesn’t help, and I can’t tell from the article if the Pakistani polio program really involved spying or not, but it does not seem right to me to say that it is entirely the fault of the CIA that paranoia is rampant in the Third World, or that this announcement will solve the problem. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/17 "2014-05-21T14:33:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Seems to me you should be more angry at the people who exposed a program that was working well, getting results, and making everybody happy, than with the people running the program. What? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve seen on the boards in a long time. I really don’t understand your thinking. It sounds like you’re saying that wrong is only wrong if you get caught, which is morally bankrupt and ethically indefensible. If it means that thousands of people will not suffer from preventable diseases and the rest of the world will respect and trust the US, I’d happily let a dozen Bin Ladens live to a ripe old age. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/18 "2014-05-21T14:58:57Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > I thought it was pretty well known that they confirmed bin Laden’s presence by getting DNA from known relatives during a vaccination sweep of his neighborhood. It was confirmed that they tried and failed to do this. In hindsight it wasn’t worth it, and it sounds like the kind of implausibly bad idea you get when you assign somebody a difficult task and a near-infinite budget. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > We could save the technique for **vaccinating kids all over the Middle East and Africa who now might not get vaccinated because their parents are confirmed in their belief that vaccination programs are sometimes CIA plots** , that’s who we could save it for. Vaccination programs are doing a great job at wiping out diseases in a lot of countries. Polio is gone in every country except Nigeria, Afghanistan and Pakistan. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/19 "2014-05-21T16:34:29Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > It sounds like you’re saying that wrong is only wrong if you get caught, which is morally bankrupt and ethically indefensible. Unfortunately, quite a number of people do believe that wrong is only wrong if you get caught. Look at the reaction to the Edward Snowden leaks. The NSA was outed for conducting widespread surveilance in violation of pretty much every law & international treaty out there, and the Administration still insists that Snowden was the bad guy. There’s also the fact that the US is openly assassinating people without any semblance of trial or due process, but our government insists it’s all OK because only the bad guys get blown up :dubious: Our government has become as Machiavellian as China or Israel, and neither political party seems to have any interest in trying to change things. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/20 "2014-05-21T16:37:11Z")
Well, it was a nice thread topic while it lasted. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845.md?page=2)