# The CIA admits to using vaccination programs for spying **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 20, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845 "2014-05-20T17:21:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/21 "2014-05-21T17:49:01Z")
Hmm… I thought it was common knowledge that Medecins Sans Frontiers collaborated with the DGSE (the French intelligence service), so the involvement of other intelligence services in similar matters is not surprising. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/22 "2014-05-21T18:56:27Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Vaccination programs are doing a great job at wiping out diseases in a lot of countries. Polio is gone in every country except Nigeria, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Indeed–which is why it’s paramount that their integrity be above reproach, especially in nations that might just have a high population of folks suspicious of the US. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/23 "2014-05-21T19:00:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Seems to me you should be more angry at the people who exposed a program that was working well, getting results, and making everybody happy, than with the people running the program. What program was working well, getting results, and making everybody happy? Yeah, the non-CIA vaccination program was working OK; you know saving lives and all that. But who’s happy about the CIA program? The innocent doctors who got killed because they were suspected of being CIA spies? The innocent kids who are getting polio because nobody trusts the doctors anymore? How was it getting results? – The CIA admits it didn’t work at catching anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/24 "2014-05-21T20:57:41Z")
I think its horrible that they were spreading autism like that. Shame! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/25 "2014-05-21T21:25:00Z")
Didn’t bin Laden have some relatives who voluntarily provided DNA samples to match against? At least, that’s the way I heard it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/26 "2014-05-21T22:22:12Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > What? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve seen on the boards in a long time. I really don’t understand your thinking. It sounds like you’re saying that wrong is only wrong if you get caught, which is morally bankrupt and ethically indefensible. No, I’m saying that the program wasn’t wrong to begin with. Exposing the program is the only crime committed here, because it has damaged our national security and will stop a lot of people from getting vaccinated. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/27 "2014-05-21T22:24:01Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > But who’s happy about the CIA program? The innocent doctors who got killed because they were suspected of being CIA spies? The innocent kids who are getting polio because nobody trusts the doctors anymore? How was it getting results? – The CIA admits it didn’t work at catching anyone. And just think - if not for the “heroic” whistleblowers, none of that would be happening and nobody would have gotten hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/28 "2014-05-21T22:27:58Z")
It’s “I was fine until you told me I had cancer, Doctor! Thanks for nothing!” to the power of 10. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/29 "2014-05-21T22:32:56Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Unfortunately, quite a number of people do believe that wrong is only wrong if you get caught. Look at the reaction to the Edward Snowden leaks. The NSA was outed for conducting widespread surveilance in violation of pretty much every law & international treaty out there, and the Administration still insists that Snowden was the bad guy. Well, it is possible for both parties to be guilty of unconscionable acts, despite which came first. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/30 "2014-05-21T22:36:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > No, I’m saying that the program wasn’t wrong to begin with. Exposing the program is the only crime committed here, because it has damaged our national security and will stop a lot of people from getting vaccinated. The thing is, shit like this always gets exposed sooner or later. Using an altruistic service in the name of humanitarianism should never, ever, be soiled by shit politics and paranoid nationalism. Use something else. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/31 "2014-05-21T22:41:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > it does not seem right to me to say that it is entirely the fault of the CIA that paranoia is rampant in the Third World, or that this announcement will solve the problem. It’s not and it will not. But _it does not help_. > [@Smapti](#): > > No, I’m saying that the program wasn’t wrong to begin with. Exposing the program is the only crime committed here, because it has damaged our national security and will stop a lot of people from getting vaccinated. > [@Smapti](#): > > And just think - if not for the “heroic” whistleblowers, none of that would be happening and nobody would have gotten hurt. ``` Only a fool would have believed it would never come out. It was never a matter of "if" it was a matter of "when" from day one. But somebody at The Agency decided that the risk of endangering international vaccination and medical aid programs was "worth it" for the National Security value. Many of us happen to think it was not. Civilian "collateral damage" in the heat of battle is one thing, using children's health as a cover was just boneheaded and callous. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/32 "2014-05-21T23:28:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Didn’t bin Laden have some relatives who voluntarily provided DNA samples to match against? At least, that’s the way I heard it. The only time I heard about comparing DNA was after he was dead, to fully insure that was his body. Not that I couldn’t have missed it previously. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/33 "2014-05-22T00:38:07Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > The thing is, shit like this always gets exposed sooner or later. Using an altruistic service in the name of humanitarianism should never, ever, be soiled by shit politics and paranoid nationalism. Use something else. So the people who got vaccinated would be better off dying of preventable diseases because there was an ulterior motive to saving their lives? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/34 "2014-05-22T01:35:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So the people who got vaccinated would be better off dying of preventable diseases because there was an ulterior motive to saving their lives? There’s your fallacy right there. Vaccination programs would have been underway without the CIA’s interference. You really are infected with this delusion that 'MURICA! has to be the world’s savior, aren’t you? At this point I’m sure that almost all agencies involved would have much preferred that the US would stay the hell out of their programs – and that’s probably what’s going to happen in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/35 "2014-05-22T02:36:36Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > There’s your fallacy right there. Vaccination programs would have been underway without the CIA’s interference. Then why did the CIA even create the program? If these people were all going to get vaccinated without their operation, then they wouldn’t have had anyone to vaccinate when they established it. > [@](#): > > You really are infected with this delusion that 'MURICA! has to be the world’s savior, aren’t you? At this point I’m sure that almost all agencies involved would have much preferred that the US would stay the hell out of their programs – and that’s probably what’s going to happen in the future. Who would you prefer to do the job? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/36 "2014-05-22T03:23:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So the people who got vaccinated would be better off dying of preventable diseases because there was an ulterior motive to saving their lives? Do you have the slightest idea how hard it is to get vaccines to certain populations? Do you know anything at all about this subject? Do you? :dubious: Because I spent three days in March in DC listening to people who spend their lives thinking about this issue. The last goddamned thing the world needed was some asshole CIA schmuck making that process even harder. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/37 "2014-05-22T04:54:09Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Because I spent three days in March in DC listening to people who spend their lives thinking about this issue. The last goddamned thing the world needed was some asshole CIA schmuck making that process even harder. Don’t blame the CIA for the actions of extremists and conspiracy theorists. It’s not our fault they’d rather have their children die than let Americans help them. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/38 "2014-05-22T05:17:03Z")
You are a sad and strange little man. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/39 "2014-05-22T07:17:50Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > You are a sad and strange little man. The fact is, nobody was harmed by the program and a number of people benefited from it. If it had never been exposed, it could have just been left by the wayside of history as another failed experiment in intelligence-gathering. The only thing that making it public has accomplished is to incite conspiracy theorists and fanatics and make it harder for the US to operate in that part of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845/40 "2014-05-22T07:42:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The fact is, nobody was harmed by the program and a number of people benefited from it. If it had never been exposed, it could have just been left by the wayside of history as another failed experiment in intelligence-gathering. > > The only thing that making it public has accomplished is to incite conspiracy theorists and fanatics and make it harder for the US to operate in that part of the world. You’re missing one of the fundamentals of good planning and policy which is this: shit \*will \*go wrong. No one who fails to understand this should be put in charge of anything. A manager who sends a boyscout armed with a penknife to defend a bullion shipment is surely correct that the armed thieves who rob the shipment are criminals who should never have done what they did. _That doesn’t mean the manager didn’t fuck up bigtime_. The manager was either breathtakingly incompetent or didn’t really care about the consequences. In the CIA’s case I’m guessing it’s the latter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cia-admits-to-using-vaccination-programs-for-spying/688845.md?page=3)