# The classic 'Who would you save, your drowning dog or a stranger?' question **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 12, 2003, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541 "2003-08-12T00:52:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dragon\_Phoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Dragon\_Phoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragon_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/81 "2003-08-13T14:30:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JThunder \* > \*\*There are certain things that civilized individuals simply know to be true, such as the wrongness of rape or the abominability of torturing young children. This is another such matter. \*\* Fine, count me amongst the uncivilized in your universe then. So you think this is on par with your two other examples. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/82 "2003-08-13T14:34:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CarnalK \* > \*\*So **JThunder** I can assume that a choice between saving a murdering child molester human and a search&rescue dog would still be a no-brainer for you? Any other “Human over all” people feel the same way? \*\* Ah, but you’re painting a scenario wherein saving the dog is likely to ultimately save _more_ people than saving the murdering child molester. Ergo, your hypothetical scenario does nothing to refute the notion that humans are more valuable than dogs. In fact, it indirectly and ultimately appeals to that very same principle! ---
**Author:** ![sghoul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@sghoul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sghoul)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/83 "2003-08-13T14:34:11Z")
Looking at life through my religious moral beliefs, I would save the human. Humans are greater than animals. Were I to remove them somehow, and look at life purely scientifically, the dog gets saved. At that point, the stranger is just another animal in the grand sceme of things (although a rather smart animal). My dog on the other hand is a faithful companion. I do like the poster who pointed out that we let people die every day. This is in fact true. We are generally far enough removed from it, we don’t think about it. Like it or not, everytime you buy a luxury, you took resources that cool have been used to help the needy, and used it for pleasure. We, as humans, have the resources to end a great deal of death around the world. But we waste a good deal of it on things that we don’t “need”. Human nature I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/84 "2003-08-13T14:36:25Z")
Nice sidestep. Let’s say the dog is retirement age. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/85 "2003-08-13T14:39:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dragon Phoenix \* > \*\*The dispute is still whether it IS the right thing. > > And can we please keep the discussion civil? Yes, you are not calling me a discriminating uncivilized oaf, but you’re cleverly inferring it with nice phrasing. \*\* [nitpick] **JThunder** might have been _implying_ something, but it was you who did the _inferring_.[/nitpick] I’m with **JThunder** here, in that I _infer_ some basic lack of moral capacity and/or judgement in those who would elect to save their dog over the life of a human stranger. It really is a no-brainer, human beings have hopes and aspirations, fears, and, potential way beyond those of the smartest canine. For the record, you might love your dog, but your dog doesn’t love you. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/86 "2003-08-13T14:43:56Z")
For the record you have no clue what the dog “feels” ---
**Author:** ![Isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@Isabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isabelle)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/87 "2003-08-13T14:45:10Z")
## The Great Unwashed wrote quote ## For the record, you might love your dog, but your dog doesn’t love you. On the contrary,my dog loves me more then anything! She proves it to me everyday. I still say “SAVE MY DOG” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/88 "2003-08-13T14:53:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Great Unwashed \* > [I’m with **JThunder** here, in that I _infer_ some basic lack of moral capacity and/or judgement in those who would elect to save their dog over the life of a human stranger. It really is a no-brainer, human beings have hopes and aspirations, fears, and, potential way beyond those of the smartest canine. > \*\* Really? How about a severely retarded human? Do you really want this to be about rescuing whoever is smarter? Human beings have more potential to do good, and more potential to do evil. There isn’t anything intrinsically valuable in “potential.” The basic question is this: Why are humans more worthy of saving than dogs? The answer you’re giving is: They just are! Julie ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/89 "2003-08-13T14:55:32Z")
For the record, I don’t care if my pets don’t love me so long as they act like they do. Julie ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/90 "2003-08-13T15:12:13Z")
Wow, this debate suddenly heatens up. I’m sorry if I contributed to it, though it appears I didn’t directly. Shall we try to cool down a bit? 🙂 I’m sorry if I offended anyone with my remarks. I simply wanted to point out that I always got the impression that there is a rather general consensus that whatever the _legal_ duty there may be, there at least is a moral duty to rescue strangers where you can do so easily. It is codified in most European legal systems and recognized as a moral duty in the U.K. and the the U.S. AFAIK there is no recognized exception in case you also found you had to save your dog. This leads me to the conclusion that the majority opinion in these countries on this specific question is that you should leave your dog and should rescue the stranger. Whether anyone’s specific feelings on this issue are genuine is anybody’s guess; it seems clear to me that those feelings are not commonly shared. Which is not to say that we cannot understand them; part of the denouement of Harry Mulish’s _The Assault_ turns on this specific point. I should further point out that abstract examples such as this are misleading as to the actual actions of people. In reality things are never very clearcut and people may surprise you for the worse or for the better. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/91 "2003-08-13T15:15:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jsgoddess \* > \*\*Really? > > How about a severely retarded human? Do you really want this to be about rescuing whoever is smarter? > > Human beings have more potential to do good, and more potential to do evil. There isn’t anything intrinsically valuable in “potential.” > > The basic question is this: Why are humans more worthy of saving than dogs? > > The answer you’re giving is: They just are! > > Julie \*\* “A severely retarded human”? One less smart than a dog? Mmm! That’s a whole other hypothetical – talking of which: If there’s nothing intrinsically valuable in human potential then presumably you’d answer “No,” to the hypothetical, “If a stranger was drowning and you could save them, would you?” ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/92 "2003-08-13T15:17:05Z")
If I may act all high and mighty for a second: Some people think that our intelligence makes the Earth our ward. Some people think that our intelligence makes the Earth our prize. Boo to those second guys. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/93 "2003-08-13T15:18:05Z")
My remark “Whether anyone’s specific feelings on this issue are genuine is anybody’s guess” may seem inflammatory as well, for which I again apologize. In this context it should be “Whatever anyone’s specific opinions on this issue are (which, admittedly, the OP asked for),” ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/94 "2003-08-13T15:19:20Z")
Well, I’d probably be in the water after one of my girls before I even noticed there was a human behind me. I monitor my dogs _very_ closely when they’re not in our house or fenced yard, and would be in the water the second I thought they were in trouble. By contrast, why in the world would I be watching a stranger? And no, I wouldn’t hear the human and turn back to go after him. I tend to be oblivious to everything else when someone I love needs me. Hell, even if I did hear the human, I wouldn’t turn my back on my dog. For one thing, by the time I swam back to shore and went out after the human, they’d both be dead. For another thing, I just _couldn’t_. I wouldn’t be able to live with the idea that the last thing my sweet girl saw was me, the person she loves, trusts, and depends on to take care of her, the person she runs to when she’s hurt or scared, turning my back on her. The idea the she died, not just frightened and desperate and gasping for air and not understanding what was happening, but feeling abandoned by the center of her universe would eat away at my soul. So yeah, I’d save the dog, hands down. If that makes me a horrible, unethical person, tough titty. ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/95 "2003-08-13T15:20:30Z")
**sghoul** > [@](#): > > I do like the poster who pointed out that we let people die every day. Exactly. We feel quite differently towards those who are close to us. We still mourn the 3000+ who died on 9/11, as we should, but we are largely indifferent to the much larger number of people who die, every day and under similarly tragic circumstances, in other parts of the world. I don’t care about the homeless guy sleeping on the sewer outside my building nearly as much as I would if he was, say, my brother. It’s just the way humans operate. How could we care for everyone as much as we care for those close to us? And some humans care about their pets as much as they care about the rest of their family. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/96 "2003-08-13T15:28:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tusculan \* > \*\*Wow, this debate suddenly heatens up. I’m sorry if I contributed to it, though it appears I didn’t directly. Shall we try to cool down a bit? 🙂 > > I’m sorry if I offended anyone with my remarks. I simply wanted to point out that I always got the impression that there is a rather general consensus that whatever the _legal_ duty there may be, there at least is a moral duty to rescue strangers where you can do so easily. \*\* Actually, I think you’re quite right in that matter. I think that the majority of people do consider human life to be vastly more valuable than animal life. That’s one reason why the laws against killing humans are generally more severe than the laws against killing animals – even beloved dogs. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by jsgoddess_\*\*Really? > > How about a severely retarded human? Do you really want this to be about rescuing whoever is smarter?\*\* I don’t. That’s why one of my previous examples talked about rescuing innocent babies, who are decidedly less intelligent than the average dog. I don’t care if the human being is severely retarded or a scientific genius. He or she is still a human being who needs to be rescued. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/97 "2003-08-13T15:36:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Great Unwashed \* > \*\*“A severely retarded human”? One less smart than a dog? Mmm! That’s a whole other hypothetical – talking of which: > > If there’s nothing intrinsically valuable in human potential then presumably you’d answer “No,” to the hypothetical, “If a stranger was drowning and you could save them, would you?” \*\* I’d try to save any drowning animal. Julie ---
**Author:** ![Dragon\_Phoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Dragon\_Phoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragon_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/98 "2003-08-13T15:37:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Great Unwashed \* > \*\*[nitpick] **JThunder** might have been _implying_ something, but it was you who did the _inferring_.[/nitpick] > > \ > > For the record, you might love your dog, but your dog doesn’t love you. \*\* 1. Yes, very clever to nitpick someone for whom English is not the mother tongue. Full marks to you. 2. Cite? On what grounds can you make a definitive statement like that. ---
**Author:** ![Skeptico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@Skeptico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skeptico)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/99 "2003-08-13T15:56:10Z")
Would you save the human if there was no dog to worry about, and all you had to do was to push a button? Why bother, since there’s already millions of homeless/starving/suffering strangers dying as we speak, right? (In a twisted way, this thread reminds me of the “one vote doesn’t make a difference” discussion. I think in the end it comes down to the psychological perspective of how much control you perceives as having over your surroundings. My WAG is that people who feel they have no control over the world (over people) would choose the dog. I think there was a pyschology experiment done, showing that people who use salt shakers before tasting the food have the same perception of lack of control.) I would save the human, with or without the dog in the picture. I’m not a pet-owner, although we used to have a rabbit, pet chickens, and turtles (not all at once) while I was growing up. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541/100 "2003-08-13T16:03:37Z")
> [@](#): > > I would save the human, with or without the dog in the picture. I’m not a pet-owner, although we used to have a rabbit, pet chickens, and turtles (not all at once) while I was growing up. Well I would rescue the drowning stranger before the turtle. Then the order would be the rabbit then chickens(youngest to oldest). Well actually I guess I’d leave the turtle for last. Darn these moral dilemmas are tough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-classic-who-would-you-save-your-drowning-dog-or-a-stranger-question/194541.md?page=6)