# The Cleaner = Offensive **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 16, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989 "2009-06-16T20:49:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![freep5637](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@freep5637](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freep5637)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/1 "2009-06-16T20:49:58Z")
As a recovered alcoholic I’ve got to admit that in my life time, I’ve no doubt offended a ton of people in my using days, and probably a few after I got sober. lol. But, I’ve watched a few episodes of The Closer with Benjamin Bratt and I’ve got to say I find it highly offensive, not only to recovering people in general, but on a much higher level the recovery process. Forcing people into treatment, drugging them and knocking them out to get them to rehab, these things would never ever work with a real addict or drunk. Not to mention that it takes a person a few go-arounds before things really click and they have the psychic change that so many desperately seek and that is crucial for any real recovery. Also, IIRC Bratt is a recovered drug addict in the show correct? If that’s the case he’s violating the overall spirit of 12 step recovery and also a couple of the 12 traditions to boot. Does anyone else feel the same way, or could you explain to me why the show is good? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/2 "2009-06-16T20:56:28Z")
I’m considering moving this to the [Cafe Society](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?f=13) forum, but I will entertain arguments why this might be better suited to great Debates. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/3 "2009-06-16T20:58:33Z")
I think you mean “The Cleaner”, not “The Closer” ---
**Author:** ![Baracus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Baracus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baracus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/4 "2009-06-16T20:59:48Z")
I think you mean [“The Cleaner”.](http://www.aetv.com/the-cleaner/) ETA: so close ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/5 "2009-06-16T21:00:41Z")
I’ve fixed the thread title. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/6 "2009-06-16T22:00:34Z")
The show is based loosely off the life of [Warren Boyd](http://popular-culture.families.com/blog/warren-boyd-the-real-cleaner). ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/7 "2009-06-16T22:12:56Z")
> [@freep5637](#): > > I find it highly offensive So…?😕 They should take it off the air? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/8 "2009-06-16T23:01:36Z")
Off to Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/9 "2009-06-17T06:43:18Z")
TV is not real, it’s entertainment. I hate to sound so harsh for such a serious issue but we need to teach people this. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/10 "2009-06-17T07:02:29Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > TV is not real, it’s entertainment. You’re kidding. Next thing you’re gonna tell me movies aren’t real either! ---
**Author:** ![freep5637](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@freep5637](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freep5637)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/11 "2009-06-17T07:09:32Z")
sorry, got the title wrong. you guys kind of suck to be honest with you, and i put it in great debates because i figured that people would ‘debate’ the worth of the show, whether or not they found it offensive, etc. and as far as you real life vs. tv people who posted, that kind of a post is weak; especially if you’re dealing with such a serious issue. there’s so much real drama when it comes to getting sober that they wouldn’t even really have to sex it up, they could literally take stories from real life and insert hotter people, that’s the only change it’d really require to be successful or fit for tv. rehab romances, the crazy ass addict/alcoholic stories, i mean you should hear some of this stuff. and the end results good and bad are amazing enough to have people tuning in each and every week. and you know what? why shouldn’t we demand more from hollywood when it comes to realistic television? i mean who writes/produces/finances/directs the majority of the garbage on tv? there’s enough drama/comedy in real life without having to suspend reality and dumb it down for a bunch of idiots. arrested development? proof that the majority of television viewers in the usa are fucking dumb (because they didn’t watch it). ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/12 "2009-06-17T08:31:01Z")
> [@freep5637](#): > > sorry, got the title wrong. you guys kind of suck to be honest with you, and i put it in great debates because i figured that people would ‘debate’ the worth of the show, whether or not they found it offensive, etc. and as far as you real life vs. tv people who posted, that kind of a post is weak; especially if you’re dealing with such a serious issue. there’s so much real drama when it comes to getting sober that they wouldn’t even really have to sex it up, they could literally take stories from real life and insert hotter people, that’s the only change it’d really require to be successful or fit for tv. rehab romances, the crazy ass addict/alcoholic stories, i mean you should hear some of this stuff. and the end results good and bad are amazing enough to have people tuning in each and every week. and you know what? why shouldn’t we demand more from hollywood when it comes to realistic television? i mean who writes/produces/finances/directs the majority of the garbage on tv? there’s enough drama/comedy in real life without having to suspend reality and dumb it down for a bunch of idiots. arrested development? proof that the majority of television viewers in the usa are fucking dumb (because they didn’t watch it). You got the title wrong in your OP, which is fair enough, but it was readable. WTF is this? ---
**Author:** ![freep5637](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@freep5637](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freep5637)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/13 "2009-06-17T08:50:28Z")
i knew someone was going to burn me for the no caps, but my cat just literally ripped my shift key off my keyboard. sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/14 "2009-06-17T10:42:49Z")
> [@freep5637](#): > > sorry, got the title wrong. you guys kind of suck to be honest with you, and i put it in great debates because i figured that people would ‘debate’ the worth of the show, whether or not they found it offensive, etc. Most of those debates on the worth/morality/whatever of various media end up here anyway, unless it becomes really heated for some reason. I can’t say I’ve ever seen or heard of the show, though interestingly, last night was the first time I saw an ad for it. As presented, I’m highly dubious of the show’s merit on non-entertainment grounds, and am concerned that highly suggestible watchers may think that a similar method may work on their loved ones (because hey, it’s a “true story”, right?). ---
**Author:** ![singular1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@singular1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/singular1)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/15 "2009-06-17T10:55:06Z")
> [@freep5637](#): > > i knew someone was going to burn me for the no caps, but my cat just literally ripped my shift key off my keyboard. sorry. Your cat got _both_ shift keys?:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/16 "2009-06-17T10:59:43Z")
I saw the first episode a while back I seem to recall Bratt’s character talking about a high percentage of recidivism (i.e. the failure of his method to achieve any lasting effect) but I had my doubts that the series would pay this anything other than lip service, preferring instead to slap on a happy ending whenever possible. I didn’t stick with the show long enough to find out, one way or the other. Anyway, the OP should just get over it and watch something else. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/17 "2009-06-17T14:13:45Z")
> [@singular1](#): > > Your cat got _both_ shift keys?:dubious: What’re you saying? That he only got himself a three-legged cat. Cat with four legs could rip out both shift keys easy. Only need one claw on each front paw. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip and they’re gone. Mind you that would only remove the plastic key itself and leave the rest of the mechanism behind. So I suppose the cat would then have to find the two plastic key covers and hide them where the poster couldn’t find them. And I suppose if he really was assiduous in his capitalisation he could use the Caps Lock key when required, so perhaps your unwillingness to accept the verisimilitude of his story is well founded., ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/18 "2009-06-17T15:44:55Z")
> [@freep5637](#): > > i knew someone was going to burn me for the no caps, but my cat just literally ripped my shift key off my keyboard. sorry. And the return key? I guess I should be glad your keyboard has a ‘?’ key without shifting. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/19 "2009-06-17T16:45:19Z")
To get back the the OP, finding _The Cleaner_ offensive and unrealistic because it violates the principles and traditions of the twelve-step programs implies that the principles and traditions of the twelve-step programs are effective. That assumes facts not in evidence. Do you have data showing the efficacy of these programs? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989/20 "2009-06-17T17:04:27Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > To get back the the OP, finding _The Cleaner_ offensive and unrealistic because it violates the principles and traditions of the twelve-step programs implies that the principles and traditions of the twelve-step programs are effective. Well, finding _The Cleaner_ offensive because it violates the principles of twelve-step programs implies that fictional representations of methodologies counter to twelve-step programs is _ipso-factor_ offensive. Which is ridiculous. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-cleaner-offensive/499989.md?page=2)