# The Clinton - Trump Debates: how will this go down? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 21, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499 "2016-07-21T15:59:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/61 "2016-07-26T12:52:49Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Trump’s own actions have done nothing but advance his chances of winning the election. I think it’s well past time to give up the assumption he’s going to self-destruct. His support has grown relentlessly. > That’s one of the main reasons, yes. > > Trump is the worst Presidential hopeful (not counting fringe candidates) in the history of the United States of America, and it’s not a close call. He makes George W. Bush look like Nelson Mandela. Who’s the worst Presidential candidate for a major party ever who got the nomination for a major party? Goldwater? Aaron Burr? Wendell Wilkie? Trump is worse, and not, like, “he’s a few points on the Candidate Scale behind Breckinridge.” I mean, if you made a list, there’d be 150 pages of spaces between the second worst candidate and Donald Trump’s name. > > Trump is clearly, obviously, a wannabe dictator, a sociopathic narcissist who has been in the public eye for over three decades and has behaved in a despicable fashion with a relentless enthusiasm the entire time. This isn’t a person I disagree with politically; this is a person who is honest-to-God evil, and it’s obvious that he is. He’s unapologetic about it. It’s like if Syndrome from “The Incredibles” were running for President except Syndrome was a better businessman. I cannot think of anything good to say about Donald Trump. > > The fact that this race is close is a damning indictment of someone, and I’d much rather blame Hillary Clinton than I would basically the entire United States of America, whose citizenry are - like most everyone - fundamentally kind and decent people. A good candidate should be absolutely annihilating Trump. The race should look like 1964 or 1984 where people know it’s going to be a massacre. It’s an indictment of the continuing legacy and influence of white supremacist thought in America. ---
**Author:** ![GunnarFranz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/da6949/32.png) [@GunnarFranz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GunnarFranz)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/62 "2016-07-26T13:29:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s an indictment of the continuing legacy and influence of white supremacist thought in America. Most people voting for Trump will do so despite his bigoted views on Latinos and Muslims, not because of them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/63 "2016-07-26T13:48:02Z")
> [@GunnarFranz](#): > > Most people voting for Trump will do so despite his bigoted views on Latinos and Muslims, not because of them. I’m not so sure about that. Most Trump voters that I’ve spoken with just don’t think the things he says are bigoted. Dismissal of this kind of thing is part of the legacy of white supremacism – that racism is not real any more, and accusations of racism are inevitably false, and that “reverse racism” is the real problem. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/64 "2016-07-26T13:49:04Z")
> [@GunnarFranz](#): > > Most people voting for Trump will do so despite his bigoted views on Latinos and Muslims, not because of them. That’s not the impression I get. So many of them want to end “Political Correctness.” That is, to unleash racism, xenophobia & misogyny. Probably Homophobia as well… ---
**Author:** ![GunnarFranz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/da6949/32.png) [@GunnarFranz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GunnarFranz)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/65 "2016-07-26T14:08:21Z")
Ending political correctness is not always a guise for racism, it is a blanket term applied to the proclivity for politicians to issue non-answers rather than “telling it like it is.” The fact that he has made comments stereotyping and disparaging Mexicans and Muslims can and certainly should be held against him. The majority of people in my area (Connecticut) who are voting for Trump know that he will not get any of his unconstitutional ideas passed, they are just fed up with the left’s PC brigade, e.g. parading illegal immigrants like they are heroes. I highly doubt Trump will win but if he does life will indeed go on. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/66 "2016-07-26T14:30:47Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Something I’ve been wondering for a while: odds on Trump saying something during one of the debates that makes the audience gasp as one? I can easily imagine it happening, yet I know it’s kind of unlikely. He does this daily. And people seems to just love him more for it. Any willingness I had to even listen to Trump’s side of the argument absolutely vanished on 24 November 2016. I find it inconceivable that any human being can look at it and not feel contempt and outrage. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/67 "2016-07-26T15:03:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s an indictment of the continuing legacy and influence of white supremacist thought in America. That’s a terrible excuse. 1. What percentage of Americans are white supremacists? 2. Assuming you came up with any number that is within shouting distance of the truth, please explain why Trump’s polling numbers are so much higher than the answer to question 1. 3. If in fact you came up with an insanely high number in response to Question 1, then why do white supremacists not have a history of electoral success in modern American politics? A good candidate would be mopping the floor with Trump’s entrails. If the term limit was three terms, right now it’d be running about 55-35 Obama, if Trump was lucky. Most of the undecided would vote Obama. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/68 "2016-07-26T15:54:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Through the Republican debates, he’s overcome that by an enormous amount of obnoxious bluster. The problem is that doing that to a female candidate doesn’t play nearly as well as it doing it to a male candidate does. Trump commenting on Fiorina: > [@](#): > > Look at that face! Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president? He didn’t say it in the middle of the debate, but still. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/69 "2016-07-26T16:01:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m not so sure about that. Most Trump voters that I’ve spoken with just don’t think the things he says are bigoted. FWIW, I myself don’t recall agreeing with the characterization of things Trump has said as being bigoted or misogynistic (though I might have forgotten and/or be unaware of things he’s said. But I think I’ve seen the more celebrated examples - and disagreed WRT them). And I despise Trump. So you can only imagine what Trump voters would think. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/70 "2016-07-26T16:03:54Z")
Actually, no, I can’t. My imagination falters when I try imagine that they think. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/71 "2016-07-26T16:12:11Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That’s a terrible excuse. > > 1. What percentage of Americans are white supremacists? > > 2. Assuming you came up with any number that is within shouting distance of the truth, please explain why Trump’s polling numbers are so much higher than the answer to question 1. > > 3. If in fact you came up with an insanely high number in response to Question 1, then why do white supremacists not have a history of electoral success in modern American politics? > > A good candidate would be mopping the floor with Trump’s entrails. If the term limit was three terms, right now it’d be running about 55-35 Obama, if Trump was lucky. Most of the undecided would vote Obama. 1 and 2: I don’t know for sure, but I would estimate that 5-10% of people have overtly white supremacist beliefs (e.g. black and brown people are inferior in some way, or less authentically American, or similar). But I think far, far more than that amount have beliefs that, if not overtly white supremacist, still strongly reflect the white supremacist legacy of the country’s history – for example, a dismissal of racism and bigotry (personal and institutional) as a significant factor in modern society; a feeling that whites are more discriminated against than other races in America; xenophobic tendencies (which are not unique to white supremacism but are strongly reinforced by it); confusion and fear at the changing aspects of society related to ethnicity and culture; and more. If Obama was running for a third term, his numbers would be far lower, since he would be the daily focus (he’s already a target, but he’s not been the focus) of Republican attacks for the past year. Further, he’d be campaigning – and for well known politicians, being in a campaign tends to bring one’s numbers down. I think Obama would be doing better than Hillary – he’s a better politician with (probably) a better political team, but not worlds better. Further, polling during the conventions is just not helpful, and probably the opposite. We’ll know a few weeks into August what the real state of the race is, but looking at past races’ polling history, by some measures Hillary is doing as well or better than winning candidates in the past when all the polling so far is taken into account. We’ll see, but I still think it’s much too early to be saying that Hillary is an awful candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/72 "2016-07-26T16:16:16Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > That’s not the impression I get. So many of them want to end “Political Correctness.” That is, to unleash racism, xenophobia & misogyny. Probably Homophobia as well… Equating distress about the damage PC hectoring is doing to American discourse and society with ‘unleashing’ all kinds of ‘isms’, is a big liberal blind spot. From a pro-Clinton POV you’d want to hope she has advisers who can think about that in a more detached and objective way. Trump _has_ said things which shouldn’t IMO be accepted coming from a President. And as I see it the core of Trump’s active ‘pro’ support often confuse PC with basic manners and decency. But PC is also a real tactic on the left to accuse others of being beyond the pale (be silent, or I’ll call you an ‘ist’) to stamp out needed discussion. A lot of people are sick of that tactic, even beyond their opinions of the underlying issues of the day. It’s not some tiny fringe of evil ‘ists’, nor is a big portion of the US electorate evil ‘ists’. Which is something of a silver lining if Trump should win, as appears almost likely as not now, though I wouldn’t personally welcome his victory. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/73 "2016-07-26T16:25:29Z")
I will say that although I’m very surprised that all the crude and obnoxious things Trump has said haven’t hurt him much, I think there was an inkling of that in the reaction to the Biden-Ryan debate. Biden was widely perceived as having been very rude to Ryan - interrupting, making faces etc. - but did not suffer in the polls or public perception as a result. That surprised me too. Of course, Biden at his worst is a dignified elder statesman compared to Trump. But in sum, it does suggest that the public has more tolerance for this type of thing than one might have supposed. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/74 "2016-07-26T17:05:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > 1 and 2: I don’t know for sure, but I would estimate that 5-10% of people have overtly white supremacist beliefs (e.g. black and brown people are inferior in some way, or less authentically American, or similar). But I think far, far more than that amount have beliefs that, if not overtly white supremacist, still strongly reflect the white supremacist legacy of the country’s history – for example, a dismissal of racism and bigotry (personal and institutional) as a significant factor in modern society; a feeling that whites are more discriminated against than other races in America; xenophobic tendencies (which are not unique to white supremacism but are strongly reinforced by it); confusion and fear at the changing aspects of society related to ethnicity and culture; and more. Agreed. The number actual, card-carrying white supremacists is negligible. The number of people who hold negative opinions of blacks, Mexicans, and Muslims, and consider them a threat is staggeringly.high. > **[Anatomy of a Trump voter: How racism propelled Trump to the Republican...](https://www.salon.com/2016/07/23/anatomy_of_a_trump_voter_how_racism_propelled_trump_to_the_republican_nomination/)** > > Data shows racism is a powerful predictor of Trump support — far more than economic concern ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/75 "2016-07-26T17:08:11Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > Trump _has_ said things which shouldn’t IMO be accepted coming from a President. Sort of like Trump saying that he would not defend NATO allies if they were attacked… unless of course they come up with more money. It is frankly unbelievable that after this, the Republican establishment has not cut all ties with him completely. We have only some half-baked tepid tut-tutting. Let’s be honest. If Obama had come up with anything remotely like this in the past 8 years, impeachment discussions would have immediately taken place. The outrage among Republicans would have been deafening (with good reason). Now? It appears that the modern Republican party is just fine with abandoning the allies that went to war in Afghanistan for them. This is seriously beyond belief that any Republican would simply hand-wave this latest Trumpism away. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/76 "2016-07-26T18:33:45Z")
0I’mYou would never see this, but I would like to see just one debate where the candidates faced each other for an hour and asked each other questions (in a timed manner - 3 min per each q&a). No moderators, no speaking to the audience, just them verbally taking and giving shots, looking into each others eyes. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/77 "2016-07-26T18:50:22Z")
The question of who should double for Trump in HRC’s debate prep is an interesting tangent. (I hope it’s not too far off-topic.) The Slate Trumpcast podcast uses a professional Trump impersonator to read selected Tweets from Trump every episode. The host interviewed that impersonator, John DiDomenico, for [one of the episodes,](http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/trumpcast/2016/05/john_di_domenico_on_life_as_a_trump_impersonator.html)and DiDomenico said that his preparation involves study not just of Trump’s mannerisms and voice but also of his way of thinking. In other words, DiDomenico can ad-lib conversations as Trump when he’s got a gig, not just read a prepared script or deliver one-liners. Long question short, I wonder if using Trump impersonators might actually be an effective form of prep for HRC? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/78 "2016-07-26T19:09:12Z")
Obvioously, it woluld be the most effective possible prep. In another thread I suggested they hire a top notch Hollywood actor. I am convinced Jeff Daniels (who is tall and big, like Trump, and could be made up to look like him) would do a fine job. As they say in the Army, you fight as you train. The more realistic the debate prep setting, the better. It would even be wise to hold the practice in the same venues the debate will take place if at all possible or, failing that, similar venues. Trump’s team should be doing precisely the same thing; finding an actress who can look, sound and act like Hillary Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/79 "2016-07-26T20:23:52Z")
The town where I grew up [(small town in Virginia)](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36752237) was recently featured in a story on BBC News as an example of the type of place where Trump is incredibly popular. Great, my hometown gets some international attention for something, and it’s for this! Anyway, every single white person I know there is voting for Trump. Gleefully. And I’ll tell you something else about these people. They are racists, one and all. No, no, not the “I’m a member of a white supremacist group” kind of racist, but the kind that looks at a Hispanic woman in the drug store with 3 kids, and thinks “fucking Mexicans taking over”. Or sees a black man walking down the road and slightly edges a little bit closer as they drive past instead of edging away. Oh, I don’t want to hit him! But a little scare is just “keeping him in place”. In the US, certain places are full of these people. I live in Atlanta now, and even in a metro area as diverse as this, it is still present, just slightly more under the surface. I have a co-worker who has a confederate flag hanging inside his workshop at home. Not so brave as to fly it on the front of his house, but it’s there, under the surface. And that’s a key point. Not brave enough to be outwardly racist, but it’s there, under cover. Trump encourages this. It’s who he is. It’s why he is dangerous. **RickJay** , I’ll admit I have come close to blocking you a few times recently. Your constant posting that Trump is going to win drives me bonkers. I kinda feel like you are doing it somewhat to say “Wake up Americans, do something about it!!!” But, you see, we know. We are worried too. But the racist hatred still runs deep in this country, and Trump is the perfect person to stoke it, and I’m not sure what Hilary could be doing that she is not. Eventually, we have to get the people out to vote. Simple as that. We aren’t converting any of the Trumpsters, they are who they are. And they are what they are. I’m not saying all Trump supporters are racists. But I think the overwhelming number of racists are Trump supporters. If you are not a racist, but you are a Trump supporter, I don’t know how you can look past the man’s despicable racism to find any good in his other policies. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499/80 "2016-07-26T20:45:26Z")
I’m sorry, **RickJay** , but you are misplacing far too much of the blame for Trump’s popularity of Ms. Clinton. It wasn’t her machinations that caused him to beat out all the other Republicans and come out on top. You can lay the blame for that on all the juvenile hateful racist crap he spewed and the Republicans that lapped it up election after election after election. The other candidates gave with the “Clintonhate”, but it turns out that _that_ wasn’t enough for the voting mob-they wanted a wider variety of irrational hate and fear, and he was the only one with the “Civilization Filter” removed that could give that to them. Outside of attempting to stoop to his level(and I really don’t see that working for Democrats), there is absolutely nothing Hillary could have done that would have made a difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clinton-trump-debates-how-will-this-go-down/760499.md?page=5)