# The Clintons and the possible death of their strongest rival?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 29, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423 "2008-01-29T05:06:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/1 "2008-01-29T05:06:39Z")
Don’t sure how to put this, but I just read that a lot of mysterious deaths surrounded the Clintons in the 90’s and that many suspect that they hade something to do with their deaths. I read this on the rebublican debateboard (Celiberal) : "_…On the other hand, it would not surprise me if Obama suddenly had an accident, like other Clinton opponents, such as JFK Jr"._ Another poster provide a long list of people who have died mysteriously around the Clintons: 1 - James McDougal - Clinton’s convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr’s investigation. 2 - Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House. 3 - Vince Foster - Former white House councilor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock’s Rose Law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide. 4 - Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown’s skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors. 5 - C. Victor Raiser II and Montgomery Raiser, Major players in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992. 6 - Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992… Described by Clinton as a “Dear friend and trusted advisor.” 7- Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in VA of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events. 8 - Jerry Parks - Head of Clinton’s gubernatorial security team in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park’s son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house. 9 - James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a “Black Book” of people which contained names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas. 10 - James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater. 11- Kathy Ferguson, ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson, was found dead in May 1994, in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she were going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones. 12 - Bill Shelton - Arkansas State Trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the grave site of his fiancee. 13 - Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton’s friend Dan Lassater, died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor. 14 - Florence Martin - Accountant & sub-contractor for the CIA, was related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. He died of three gunshot wounds. 15 - Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death. 16 - Paula Grober - Clinton’s speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident. 17 - Danny Casolaro -Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparently, in the middle of his investigation. 18 - Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 “October Surprise” was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno three weeks before his death. 19 - Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August15, 1993. He was investigating the Morgan Guarantee scandal. 20 - Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised, nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce. 21- Charles Meissner - Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane \> crash. 22 - Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee, died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton’s advisory council personally treated Clinton’s mother, stepfather and brother. [http://www.celiberal.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13584&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15](http://www.celiberal.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13584&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15) I’ve never heard about this - what is the general opinion in USA about these “romours”? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/2 "2008-01-29T05:07:58Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] I’ve never heard about this - what is the general opinion in USA about these “romours”? [/QUOTE] That they are extremely silly. ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/3 "2008-01-29T05:21:56Z")
I’m not going to go through these examples, because it won’t happen. Even if these are all true (I didn’t read them all so…) there’s no way it’ll happen to Obama. None of these people had the Secret Service detail afforded to a presidential potential like BO. Assassination? Still very unlikely, but for it to be so discrete as an “accident” well… I don’t see it happening. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/4 "2008-01-29T05:36:51Z")
[Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp) on the subject. Oh, and last I checked, Monica Lewinsky and Linda Tripp are both alive and kicking. I wonder why they were spared, or as **BrainGlutton** said, the rumors are extremely silly. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/5 "2008-01-29T05:39:24Z")
The bullshit is starting already, isn’t it? Krugman in the Times today said that the Republicans will be throwing mud in the fall, and then this. You should be ashamed of yourself (OP) for not looking things up first. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/6 "2008-01-29T05:42:35Z")
Yet John Huang, himself, still lives! Someone blundered, killing people peripherally associated with him, but leaving the guilty party alive. Okay, I’d never seen the full list before, but Clinton’s signer? WTF did she have to do with SQUAT? A bereft spouse killing himself on his wife’s grave? Kids, I’ve said before that I’ve never seen a conspiracy theory I didn’t love, and I’ve turned a hobby of amateur sleuthing into a VERY-poorly-paid sideline, but I’m unimpressed. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/7 "2008-01-29T05:47:14Z")
The Clinton Death List? [Seriously?](http://www.wickedsunshine.com/WagePeace/Election2004/Images/AwJeez,NotThisShitAgain!.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/8 "2008-01-29T05:54:22Z")
[QUOTE=DMC] Oh, and last I checked, Monica Lewinsky and Linda Tripp are both alive and kicking. [/QUOTE] Well, maybe “kicking” isn’t the right word there . . . though the right word probably does end in “-cking” . . . 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/9 "2008-01-29T05:54:42Z")
Most of that list gets a great big :rolleyes: but this pisses me off: > [@](#): > > 2 - Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at > a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just after > she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White > House. As snopes points out, Mary and two co-workers were killed in a stupid robbery. Their deaths were tragic enough, but that they are being used by right-wing creeps in furtherance of their stupid agenda is horrific. Shame on the OP for spreading this nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/10 "2008-01-29T06:14:08Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] Most of that list gets a great big :rolleyes: but this pisses me off: As snopes points out, Mary and two co-workers were killed in a stupid robbery. Their deaths were tragic enough, but that they are being used by right-wing creeps in furtherance of their stupid agenda is horrific. Shame on the OP for spreading this nonsense. [/QUOTE] It’s also a complete falsehood that she was going to testify to any sexual harrassment. The Snopes article does an excellent job of debunking all this crap but I’m kind of surprised it’s popping up again. I didn’t think even the most strident Clinton haters believed this garbage anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/11 "2008-01-29T06:29:41Z")
according to some users on Celiberal (from the same thread): * * * User **BeanCounter** _Sorry - can’t buy into it. Even if the Clintons were capable of stooping to murder (which I strongly doubt), why would they have felt so threatened by Kennedy running for that seat? Why not simply try to defeat him at the polls instead of arranging an elaborate, risky sabotage of a private plane?_ answer from user called **Eliotness** _Simple, JFK, Jr, was one hundred times more popular than Hillary Clinton. Remember, one of the most popular Halloween costumes that year was a Hillary Clinton mask and a Carpet Bag. She was viewed as a Carpet Bagger. Let alone the fact that he was the son of one of the most adored Presidents in American history. If they went to the polls she would have gotten less than 20 percent of the vote. Hell, he could probably still beat her in the senate race and he has been dead for nine years._ * * * I smell conspiracy-theory here, but this information scared me a bit ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/12 "2008-01-29T06:39:22Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] according to some users on Celiberal (from the same thread): * * * User **BeanCounter** _Sorry - can’t buy into it. Even if the Clintons were capable of stooping to murder (which I strongly doubt), why would they have felt so threatened by Kennedy running for that seat? Why not simply try to defeat him at the polls instead of arranging an elaborate, risky sabotage of a private plane?_ answer from user called **Eliotness** _Simple, JFK, Jr, was one hundred times more popular than Hillary Clinton. Remember, one of the most popular Halloween costumes that year was a Hillary Clinton mask and a Carpet Bag. She was viewed as a Carpet Bagger. Let alone the fact that he was the son of one of the most adored Presidents in American history. If they went to the polls she would have gotten less than 20 percent of the vote. Hell, he could probably still beat her in the senate race and he has been dead for nine years._ * * * I smell conspiracy-theory here, but this information scared me a bit [/QUOTE] Oh, for heaven’s sake. JFK Jr. died because he took his plane out in bad weather he wasn’t qualified to fly in. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/13 "2008-01-29T06:42:27Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] according to some users on Celiberal (from the same thread): * * * User **BeanCounter** _Sorry - can’t buy into it. Even if the Clintons were capable of stooping to murder (which I strongly doubt), why would they have felt so threatened by Kennedy running for that seat? Why not simply try to defeat him at the polls instead of arranging an elaborate, risky sabotage of a private plane?_ answer from user called **Eliotness** _Simple, JFK, Jr, was one hundred times more popular than Hillary Clinton. Remember, one of the most popular Halloween costumes that year was a Hillary Clinton mask and a Carpet Bag. She was viewed as a Carpet Bagger. Let alone the fact that he was the son of one of the most adored Presidents in American history. If they went to the polls she would have gotten less than 20 percent of the vote. Hell, he could probably still beat her in the senate race and he has been dead for nine years._ * * * I smell conspiracy-theory here, but this information scared me a bit [/QUOTE] What “information?” ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/14 "2008-01-29T08:18:52Z")
> [@](#): > > 4 - Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported > to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the > investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown’s skull > resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being > investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with > prosecutors. This one is my favorite. I’ve never been able to hear a logical reason why they’d need to shoot him if they were going to crash the plane anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/15 "2008-01-29T08:36:11Z")
[QUOTE=zuma] This one is my favorite. I’ve never been able to hear a logical reason why they’d need to shoot him if they were going to crash the plane anyway. [/QUOTE] That`s to show how evil they are!, they would have nailed his head to the floor but they forgot the anthrax poisoned nails at home. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/16 "2008-01-29T10:00:09Z")
Seriously? It’s at best a complete joke. At worst, it’s a smear job. The Clintons were the President and First Lady. They knew thousands of people. The fact that a couple of dozen of them died during an eight year period is not surprising. You could make a similar list about any first couple. And look at the people who died. Friends, fund raisers, advisors. Where are their enemies? If the Clintons were killing people off, why is Ken Starr still alive? Newt Gingrich? Linda Tripp? Richard Scaife? Rush Limbaugh? Matt Drudge? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/17 "2008-01-29T12:09:46Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > You should be ashamed of yourself (OP) for not looking things up first. Will people please stop dumping on the OP? He explained clearly that he’d never heard of it before, that he ran across it on another board, and so he came here where people are supposed to come to find out the straight dope on things. Lighten up. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/18 "2008-01-29T12:20:38Z")
[QUOTE=zuma] This one is my favorite. I’ve never been able to hear a logical reason why they’d need to shoot him if they were going to crash the plane anyway. [/QUOTE] And what the hell is a “pathologist close to the investigation”, anyway? Who was she/he, If she/he wasn’t part of the investigation itself, with full access to all pertinent information, this pathologist’s opinion is just as valuable as mine. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/19 "2008-01-29T12:34:29Z")
I’m glad you posted this sheer insanity, **Wildfire** MM\*\*, because it really is the crescendo of the recent Clinton-hate. I guess being a little “Rovian” is nothing when you’re really a cold blooded murdering couple - the Bonnie and Clyde of politics. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423/20 "2008-01-29T12:45:59Z")
These are some of my favorites: [QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] 5 - C. Victor Raiser II and Montgomery Raiser, Major players in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992. [/quote] It’s obvious that the Clintons hate fundraisers… > [@](#): > > 6 - Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992… Described by Clinton as a “Dear friend and trusted advisor.” … and advisors. > [@](#): > > 16 - Paula Grober - Clinton’s speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident. As the old political axiom goes, as soon as you’re elected president, you have one month to get rid of your sign language interpreter. Them’s the rules. And don’t try to make him/her die in TWO car accidents! That’d be suspicious. > [@](#): > > 22 - Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee, died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton’s advisory council personally treated Clinton’s mother, stepfather and brother. Stupid doctor’s bills. I find it very interesting that Bill Clinton didn’t murder many (if any) Republicans. Sometimes the right wing doesn’t know how good they have it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-clintons-and-the-possible-death-of-their-strongest-rival/435423.md?page=2)