# The Closest A Woman Has Gotten To A Roster Spot On A Professional (Traditionally Male) Sports Team **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 13, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403 "2015-06-13T01:36:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/41 "2015-06-17T21:27:14Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I watched the US Nigeria game yesterday and it shocks me that someone would think these players could play professionally against men. Ignoring the pace of the game you had a high percentage of the passes behind players, crosses shanked out of bounds, slow moves off the dribble. > . I was thinking the very same thing last night. The number of bad passes is shocking. Watching some U20 the other day the quality of their play is way above anything in the WWC. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/42 "2015-06-17T21:30:09Z")
Hayley Wickenheiser played for a couple of third-tier professional hockey teams in Finland and Sweden (note that the first tier leagues are a pretty large step below the NHL as well). She ended up leaving one of the teams after it was promoted to the second tier. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/43 "2015-06-17T21:31:35Z")
> [@Reluctant\_A](#): > > Saying that there’s no woman in the world good enough to play on a men’s team, on the basis that no women’s team could beat a men’s team makes as much sense to me as saying that there’s nobody on Duke’s 2015 Men’s National Championship basketball team good enough to play in the NBA, on the basis that that team couldn’t beat the Charlotte Hornets. No, it doesn’t prove anything, but your position is equivalent to “Sure, the Golden State Warrior regularly beat that High School Junior Varsity team by 90 pts, but that doesn’t mean Little Joey couldn’t play in the NBA.” Technically right, but you’re not really convincing either. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/44 "2015-06-17T21:55:47Z")
The minimum salary for an NBA player is just over $500,000. The _maximum_ salary for the WNBA is $101,000. If Maya Moore coupld play in the NBA, why doesn’t she try out and quadruple her salary? If she made it the endorsement $$ would be outrageous. If she washed out, her WNBA team would take her back in an instant. Yet she doesn’t even try. I wonder why? ---
**Author:** ![Reluctant\_A](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@Reluctant\_A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reluctant_A)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/45 "2015-06-18T01:49:53Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > The minimum salary for an NBA player is just over $500,000. The _maximum_ salary for the WNBA is $101,000. If Maya Moore coupld play in the NBA, why doesn’t she try out and quadruple her salary? If she made it the endorsement $$ would be outrageous. If she washed out, her WNBA team would take her back in an instant. Yet she doesn’t even try. I wonder why? Probably because she makes more than $500K to play for Shanxi in China, and she actually gets to play. ---
**Author:** ![Reluctant\_A](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@Reluctant\_A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reluctant_A)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/46 "2015-06-18T02:06:39Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > No, it doesn’t prove anything, but your position is equivalent to “Sure, the Golden State Warrior regularly beat that High School Junior Varsity team by 90 pts, but that doesn’t mean Little Joey couldn’t play in the NBA.” Technically right, but you’re not really convincing either. _bows down_ You’re the man, boss. I’ll put it to you like this, I guarantee you that there’s at least one guy on the Blue Devils good enough to play in the NBA, even though they’d get stomped by the worst team in the league. Am I willing to “guarantee” that there’s a woman on the Mercury good enough to play in the NBA, even though the _team_ would get stomped? Well, I wouldn’t go _that_ far, but I wouldn’t bet my life that there _isn’t_ one, either. FWIW, I’m not trying to convince anybody of anything: I don’t _want_ to see women playing men’s sports. I like women’s basketball, just like it is. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/47 "2015-06-18T06:30:23Z")
> **[Babe Didrikson Zaharias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Zaharias)** > > Mildred Ella "Babe" Didrikson Zaharias (/zəˈhɑːriəs/; née Didrikson; June 26, 1911 – September 27, 1956) was an American athlete who excelled in golf, basketball, baseball, and track and field. She won two gold medals in track and field at the 1932 Summer Olympics before turning to professional golf and winning 10 LPGA major championships. > Mildred Ella Didrikson was born on June 26, 1911, the sixth of seven children, in the coastal city of Port Arthur, Texas. Her mother Hannah and her father O... Maybe the greatest female athlete ever ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/48 "2015-06-18T07:20:47Z")
Given the fact that Sports Illustrated had a bridge column for years and even published some bridge books under its imprint I will argue that bridge is a sport. The first woman to play in an otherwise all-male team in a National Championship was Sally Young who was also the first woman selected for the Bridge Hall of Fame. However the woman who competed most frequently and most successfully among the men in both U.S. National Championships and Bermuda Bowl (World) Championships was Helen Martin Smith (Sobel) a one-time chorus girl who appeared in the stage version of Animal Crackers. She later became so adept at bridge that she became the partner of Charles Goren. She won 11 North American team championships at a time when those “open” team events were almost entirely composed of men. She was runner up 11 other times and was runner up once in the World Championship. She also won at least 20 other National Championship events and the McKenney trophy for most Master Points accumulated in one year, three times, probably also the first woman ever to achieve this. Once when she was partnering Mr. Goren one of his female fans was fawning over him and asked Ms. Smith what it was like to play with such a great expert. She quickly responded that she had no idea and the question would be more reasonably directed to Mr. Goren. She was referred to by the editor of Bridge World as the only woman of his era who was ever considered the best bridge player in the world. Her style of play was so aggressive that some of her male companions were said to have felt like they were the female half of a mixed pair when partnering her. She unfortunately died at 59 from cancer or her record would be even more unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/49 "2015-06-18T09:58:01Z")
> [@denquixote](#): > > Given the fact that Sports Illustrated had a bridge column for years and even published some bridge books under its imprint I will argue that bridge is a sport… I think a sport has to have an athletic/hand-eye/physical manipulation component to it. I don’t think board or card games really count ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/50 "2015-06-18T10:36:20Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think a sport has to have an athletic/hand-eye/physical manipulation component to it. I don’t think board or card games really count Otherwise some Goth DnD player out there might be the greatest athlete ever. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/51 "2015-06-18T11:01:19Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > I was thinking the very same thing last night. The number of bad passes is shocking. Watching some U20 the other day the quality of their play is way above anything in the WWC. Likewise, watching the Switzerland-Cameroon game. Some good ball-handling by a few players but otherwise a lot of shockingly bad passes and a much slower pace than the men’s game. Still better than me, though. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/52 "2015-06-18T12:17:18Z")
I remember watching the famous US-Brazil from the last cup. Exciting stuff, but made possible by some pretty poor play you would never see in the men’s game. The loss of possession after clearance, the unmarked woman in the box and some poor quality of goalkeeping. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/53 "2015-06-18T12:44:26Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Otherwise some Goth DnD player out there might be the greatest athlete ever. :dubious: I’m imagining the medal ceremony as we speak, there’s a comedy sketch in there somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/54 "2015-06-18T13:12:47Z")
> [@Reluctant\_A](#): > > I’ll put it to you like this, I guarantee you that there’s at least one guy on the Blue Devils good enough to play in the NBA, even though they’d get stomped by the worst team in the league. No one is arguing against that, so we’re all in agreement. > [@Reluctant\_A](#): > > Am I willing to “guarantee” that there’s a woman on the Mercury good enough to play in the NBA, even though the _team_ would get stomped? Well, I wouldn’t go _that_ far, but I wouldn’t bet my life that there _isn’t_ one, either. The problem is that when women have played on men’s teams they haven’t stood a chance. They are hopeless out matched in speed and strength, which are HUGE parts of the NBA game. No one is asking you to bet your life, but you have to show some evidence that a woman can compete with men at some significant level of the game. Right now all you have is your gut feel. Can you provide any evidence beyond that? > [@Reluctant\_A](#): > > FWIW, I’m not trying to convince anybody of anything. You’ve put forward an unsupported assertion. If you want to say it’s your opinion and leave it at that, fine. But you’re engaging in a discussion and not responding to legitimate criticisms of your argument. And remember, the question isn’t whether you could put the best WNBA on an NBA team and still win. The question is whether the team would be better with her versus the same team with some other available male player. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/55 "2015-06-18T16:06:14Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I remember watching the famous US-Brazil from the last cup. Exciting stuff, but made possible by some pretty poor play you would never see in the men’s game. The loss of possession after clearance, the unmarked woman in the box and some poor quality of goalkeeping. Remember the Brazil v Italy final from The Rose Bowl at WC 1994? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Reluctant\_A](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@Reluctant\_A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reluctant_A)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/56 "2015-06-18T16:32:37Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > …No one is asking you to bet your life, but you have to show some evidence that a woman can compete with men at some significant level of the game. Right now all you have is your gut feel. Can you provide any evidence beyond that? No evidence exists, at least not in the post-WNBA era, because no woman has tried to do it. I’m 99 percent sure that it’s because they’d get smoked, but I feel like it could just as well be an “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence” situation. It’s not like, in the nearly two decades that the WNBA was launched that a woman has tried out for the NBA and failed. > [@](#): > > …And remember, the question isn’t whether you could put the best WNBA on an NBA team and still win. The question is whether the team would be better with her versus the same team with some other available male player. Well, then, I guess I read the OP wrong. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/57 "2015-06-18T17:11:34Z")
The Professional Bowlers Association has long been dominated by men. However, Kelly Kulick cracked open that shell in 2010. > [@](#): > > Kulick is the first woman ever to win a regular Professional Bowlers Association tour title, winning the 2010 PBA Tournament of Champions in Las Vegas on January 24, 2010. (See: PBA Bowling Tour: 2009-10 season.) After finishing the weekly qualifying as the #2 seed, she defeated #3 qualifier Mika Koivuniemi to advance to the final against 12-time titleist and 2007-08 PBA Player of the Year Chris Barnes. In the final, she threw 10 strikes in a dominating 265-195 win. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/58 "2015-06-18T20:10:34Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > You could be right- but SO FAR, no men’s college basketball team has seen fit to put any woman on its roster. > > Why not? If there’s a woman good enough to be an NBA benchwarmer, why hasn’t there been a woman good enough to be a benchwarmer at Delaware or Lehigh? Because those women are starting on Championship teams for UConn or Notre Dame or Maryland or Tennessee? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/59 "2015-06-18T20:46:34Z")
> [@Reluctant\_A](#): > > It’s not like, in the nearly two decades that the WNBA was launched that a woman has tried out for the NBA and failed. That’s completely understandable. The evidence doesn’t have to come from the NBA, however. In all the leagues around the world, at college, semi-pro, even club leagues, are there any women playing significant minutes and holding their own? I’m just asking for any evidence beyond your gut feel (which may be accurate, I’m not discounting that) that supports your case. If there isn’t any evidence, what do you base your position on? You could be a serious student of the game and your gut feel is valid, I’m open to that. But everyone else who seems to be knowledgeable says no. Here’s a quote from Geno Auriemma, head coach of the UConn Women’s team and one of the most successful coaches in women’s basketball: > [@](#): > > And if Brittney Griner tries to make it to an NBA team, I think it would be a public relations thing and I think it would be a sham. The fact that a woman could actually play right now in the NBA and compete successfully against the level of play that they have is absolutely ludicrous. > **[Can a Woman Play In the NBA? | TIME.com](https://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2013/04/04/can-a-woman-play-in-the-nba/)** > > Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban says he might select Baylor's Brittney Griner in the NBA draft. Is he serious? Here’s another article from ESPNW - [espnW -- No woman, not Brittney Griner or any other, could play in NBA - ESPN](http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-commentary/article/9133361/espnw-no-woman-not-brittney-griner-other-play-nba) To be fair, here’s someone expressing your side of the argument but he admits that he’s pretty much alone with it - [2013 NBA Draft: Brittney Griner Can Play in the NBA, If Given Right Opportunity | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report](http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1596102-2013-nba-draft-brittney-griner-can-play-in-the-nba-if-given-right-opportunity) ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403/60 "2015-06-18T21:07:16Z")
The vaunted UConn women’s team scrimmages against random male students who are not on sports teams at the school. The article doesn’t want to come out and say it, but they never win. > **[Male Students Help UConn's No. 1 Basketball Team Get Better (Published 1997)](https://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/20/sports/male-students-help-uconn-s-no-1-basketball-team-get-better.html)** > > Frank Litsky, in first of four articles on University of Connecticut women's basketball team, notes that team scrimmages against male students and is ranked first in major national polls with 25-0 record; photo (M) The US women’s Olympic hockey team scrimmaged against several boys’ high school teams before winning a silver medal in 2014. They went 2-2. > **[U.S. Olympic Women's Hockey Team Preparing for Sochi Games by Playing High...](https://nesn.com/2014/01/u-s-womens-olympic-hockey-team-preparing-for-sochi-games-by-playing-boys-high-school-teams-in-new-england/)** > > BROOKLINE, Mass. — The United States women’s hockey team will be among the top gold medal contenders at the 2014 Winter Olympics, but before the squad heads to Sochi on Feb. 1, it’s preparing for the Games by scrimmaging against New England high... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closest-a-woman-has-gotten-to-a-roster-spot-on-a-professional-traditionally-male-sports-team/722403.md?page=4)