# The Closure of the "Father Solanus Casey Was A Living Saint Thread" **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 24, 2022, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493 "2022-07-24T23:31:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/81 "2022-07-26T18:29:28Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > You also can’t assume they are not gay due to unsubstantiated feelings you have about them from their posts. I don’t think it’s unusual for gay or transgender people to waver on coming out. And if someone wants to avoid this scrutiny, they can quite easily do so by _not making homophobic posts_. Again, the only reason the credibility of the poster’s claimed identity came under scrutiny was the issue of whether it gave him a “pass” to engage in homophobic commentary that would not otherwise be tolerated. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/82 "2022-07-26T18:32:05Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > Why would it matter? A troll showing up pretending to be LGBT so that they could promote the worst right-wing stereotypes about LGBT people is the most obvious and easy example. There was also a case years ago on the SDMB, where a poster claimed to be a trans woman, and posted regular updates about their process of transition, interactions with family, struggles at work, etc. Turned out the entire thing was a complete fabrication. They’d made it up for attention. Yeah, as a point of social etiquette, it’s rude to question someone’s claim about their sexuality. Enforcing codes of conduct often means ignoring common points of etiquette. It’s also not polite to call someone a liar, or tell them they’re not welcome, but we do that all the time. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/83 "2022-07-26T19:44:14Z")
> [@Father Solanus Casey Was A Living Saint](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint/968492/28): > > Moderating: It is sometimes hard to resist snarking in lieu of debate. However, please remember the forum you are in and conduct yourself accordingly. Focus on actual debate, if that is possible. If it isn’t, then best to stay out of the thread altogether. Thanks. No warning issued. In this post, @Aspenglow asks a poster to focus on the actual debate in a witnessing thread. I’m not really sure how to that could be done. I think it’s more evidence that this thread, and witnessing threads in general, should be in IMHO or MPSIMS. Religious posts that look for debate are fine in GD, but just blog-style witnessing? There’s no debate to be had. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/84 "2022-07-26T19:45:08Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Religious posts that look for debate are fine in GD, but just blog-style witnessing? There’s no debate to be had. There ya go. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/85 "2022-07-26T19:48:22Z")
I was so close to asking you what’s the debate in that thread, but that’s questioning the moderation! I could have had my first warning! Ack! ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/86 "2022-07-26T19:52:10Z")
I wouldn’t have given you a warning for that. It’s an understandable question, under the circumstances. But so long as witnessing remains in GD – and I don’t make the rules, I just agreed to enforce them best I can – I think the instructions I gave to @bobot are the best we can do. If there is no reasonable debate to be had, the most reasonable option is to simply ignore the thread. Others may have additional witnessing to share, but that’s about all I can think would be of use in such a thread. Hope this clarifies. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/87 "2022-07-26T20:33:49Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > My point being, do we really want to go back to when you were allowed to question publicly whether someone was _really_ gay or transgender? Because I don’t want to see that. Yep, that is going backwards. > [@Riemann](#): > > And if someone wants to avoid this scrutiny, they can quite easily do so by _not making homophobic posts_. You don’t think there are gays who don’t like some of the aspects and politicizing? There are Jews who are ardent anti-Zionists, Catholics who hate some of the Churches edicts, and so forth. > [@RitterSport](#): > > Religious posts that look for debate are fine in GD, but just blog-style witnessing? There’s no debate to be had. Yes, they are _witnessing_, one of the other functions of GD. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/88 "2022-07-26T21:00:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You don’t think there are gays who don’t like some of the aspects and politicizing? There are Jews who are ardent anti-Zionists, Catholics who hate some of the Churches edicts, and so forth. That’s a complete _non sequitur_ to what we’re discussing. The point is that, online where cannot be sure that people are being honest about their own identity, we cannot just accept “I’m X myself so it’s okay” as a free pass to spout bigotry against group X. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/89 "2022-07-26T21:07:57Z")
So give us a _clearly_ homophobic quote then? Or is it just stuff that you do not like? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/90 "2022-07-26T21:08:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You don’t think there are gays who don’t like some of the aspects and politicizing? We have a Vice Chairman of a Republican Town Committee in a nearby town who is gay, is in a same sex marriage, and is totally opposed to legalization of gay marriage. When asked how he squared this, he said I bet you take every tax deduction you are entitled to, even if you believe those are bad public policy. I was scratching my head. He also goes off on the “Gay Agenda” and “Grooming of Children” too. I question his sanity but not that he’s gay. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/91 "2022-07-26T21:11:05Z")
That > [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > Grooming of Children” almost made me choke. Wow. But yeah, I have known gays in SF that were opposed to Gay Marriage for… reasons…and dope smokers against legalizing it. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/92 "2022-07-26T21:18:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So give us a _clearly_ homophobic quote then? > > Or is it just stuff that you do not like? It was already linked upthread, but here is the warning and topic ban. > [@Kudos To Elton John](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kudos-to-elton-john/963951/8): > > Moderating: This is unabashed backhanded hate speech, in my view. The notion that simply because a man is gay, he is destined to become infected with HIV, is offensive and wrong. I find it more egregious because you attempted to couch your assertion in “friendly” speech. No warning this time, but it is noted that you have a history of starting such threads. I strongly urge you to stop doing this. Further action may follow here after consultation with other MPSIMS staff. This thread will … Should someone who is gay get a pass to post stuff like this? I don’t know, but in an online forum for reasons that should surely be obvious we cannot let people post homophobic crap based on unsubstantiated _claims_ that they are gay themselves. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/93 "2022-07-26T21:23:57Z")
Not a warning and I have heard gay men also express their horror at the prevalence of HIV among gay men. Including, about one “party dude” - “It is amazing he isn’t HIV positive.” That quote you give is by no means evidence the poster wasn’t gay. By no means do I condone the post, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/94 "2022-07-26T21:37:13Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not a warning Try again. There is a note, upgraded to a warning, with a topic ban linking to numerous other dubious threads. > [@DrDeth](#): > > I have heard gay men also express their horror at the prevalence of HIV among gay men. Which has no relevance to the issue at hand. If you want to re-litigate the consensus that JimB’s posts were homophobic, take it up with the mods. > [@DrDeth](#): > > That quote you give is by no means evidence the poster wasn’t gay. I didn’t claim it was. The point is that we don’t _know_ if he’s gay, and using this as a “pass” to post bigotry is one circumstance where you cannot take someone’s word for it. Let’s try it in again capital letters. IN AN ANONYMOUS ONLINE COMMUNITY, WE CANNOT LET PEOPLE POST BIGOTRY USING THE UNSUBSTANTIATED EXCUSE THAT THEY THEMSELVES ARE PART OF THE MARGINALIZED GROUP. If you cannot understand why that’s obvious, I really cannot help you. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/95 "2022-07-26T21:42:59Z")
To bring this thread somewhat back on track, I don’t quite understand the basis of the idea that “witnessing” threads are better in MPSIMS or IMHO than in GD. Sure, the standards of discourse are higher in GD, but the point I was making in the example I offered in **[post #52](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/52)** is that most of the threads that are excused as witnessing are mostly just nonsense threads _ **that belong nowhere at all** _. That is, these are the sorts of incoherent threads that are currently shut down or, at best, may at the poster’s option be moved to the Pit. I have no problem with threads debating or discussing religion or the existence of God or any other such topic, if done from a considered, rational standpoint. Like everything else, such threads belong in the forum to which the specific discussion is a best fit. I’m simply saying that threads touching on religious issues should be subject to the same rules as threads on any other subject, and that the rather peculiar “witnessing” rule that often grants abject nonsense a free pass should be rescinded. Almost all such nonsense threads eventually end up getting closed anyway, to no surprise to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/96 "2022-07-27T02:07:11Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > The point is that we don’t _know_ if he’s gay, and using this as a “pass” to post bigotry is one circumstance where you cannot take someone’s word for it. I never said it was. What I was getting at is that if a poster identifies themselves as Gay, or black, or whatever, we should not doubt them. Sure members of a group get a small pass- if someone here said they were gay, and later also “queer” that is okay, but not out and out bigotry. _If you cannot understand why that’s obvious, I really cannot help you._ ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/97 "2022-07-27T13:42:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What I was getting at is that if a poster identifies themselves as Gay, or black, or whatever, we should not doubt them. Someone seemingly changing their religious views depending on the time of the month should call into question what else they’re inconsistent about. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/98 "2022-07-27T16:07:55Z")
@Skywatcher I’m still curious what exactly I am inconsistent of in your opinions. As I already made clear, I still believe in God in one sense or another. I just think that he/she/it is found in every religion, every holy book, every location on earth. I still consider myself a Catholic, because all the people I loved were Catholic. And I do still find some comfort in Catholic rituals (as I recently even had to point out with an old schoolmate on Facebook). BTW some people express surprise that I don’t try to respond to my Pit thread. I actually did try to once, to defend myself ironically. But I was immediately told that I was violating a general ban I was under. That, coupled with the general (I’ll just say 🙂 ) insulting nature of the Pit, has me avoiding it (to answer that particular question 🙂 ). ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/99 "2022-07-27T16:08:59Z")
> [@The 'Flos Carmeli' Has Never Failed For Me ONCE](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flos-carmeli-has-never-failed-for-me-once/963767/1): > > The poster has recently posted several religious, quasi-witnessing threads, like the closed one, and the “[Flos Carmeli](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flos-carmeli-has-never-failed-for-me-once/963767)” thread back in May. In that one, he said: > > > [@The 'Flos Carmeli' Has Never Failed For Me ONCE](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-flos-carmeli-has-never-failed-for-me-once/963767/1): > > > > Anyways, I do still believe in God. And if part of his attributes are human and personal, why the heck can’t you pray to him? > > But, a week ago, [he started a thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-symbol/968078) to ask about a religious symbol (apparently a mariners’ cross), in which he said: > > > [@What Is This Symbol?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-symbol/968078/1): > > > > Anyways, I might as well tell you. I am very agnostic now. And maybe even quasi-atheist. > > And, now, today, he’s very religious again. Either his deep faith varies wildly by the day, he’s just plain weird, and/or he’s engaging in provocative posting to elicit reactions. Regardless, “problematic” is an apt description.   ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2022, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493/100 "2022-07-27T17:05:01Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > BTW some people express surprise that I don’t try to respond to my Pit thread. I actually did try to once, to defend myself ironically. But I was immediately told that I was violating a general ban I was under. That doesn’t sound right. People were allowed to Pit you, but the mods said you couldn’t respond? That’s not cool. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-closure-of-the-father-solanus-casey-was-a-living-saint-thread/968493.md?page=6)