# The 'Commander Riker' Syndrome... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 13, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326 "2010-05-13T17:54:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/61 "2010-05-14T18:54:28Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > As long as we’re all picking on Star Trek, what about Scotty? He was absolutely brilliant with a warp engine, but although he was promoted to captain, he was always a ship’s engineer. By the time he retired/was lost in an infinite transporter loop, he should have been working on the design of new-generation engines, or at the Academy teaching engineering classes. Scotty might make a good teacher–in fact, he probably would–but I think he’d hate being in an office or classroom rather than in the field. I see no evidence that he ever designed or invented anything new or was particularly creative. Which isn’t a criticism; it’s not a ship’s chief engineer’s job to do that. Geordi LaForge caused a ton of trouble for the Enterprise-D by being too ambitious. (I’m talking about the James Doohan Scott, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/62 "2010-05-14T23:51:58Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Scotty might make a good teacher–in fact, he probably would–but I think he’d hate being in an office or classroom rather than in the field. > > I see no evidence that he ever designed or invented anything new or was particularly creative. Which isn’t a criticism; it’s not a ship’s chief engineer’s job to do that. Geordi LaForge caused a ton of trouble for the Enterprise-D by being too ambitious. > > (I’m talking about the James Doohan Scott, of course.) According to Next Gen, Scotty wrote most of the manuals on how to operate ships, including fudging a bit for [del]extra safety[/del]to claim to be a miracle worker. He also apparently came up with a way to beam people across star systems, if you believe _Star Trek_ XI… ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/63 "2010-05-15T03:18:55Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > According to Next Gen, Scotty wrote most of the manuals on how to operate ships, including fudging a bit for [del]extra safety[/del]to claim to be a miracle worker. > > He also apparently came up with a way to beam people across star systems, if you believe _Star Trek_ XI… Oh I believe it, a vengeful Ferengi used the same method some decades later according to Next Gen. The only problem is that “warp-boosted” transport has about the same odds as flipping a coin for your safe arrival. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/64 "2010-05-15T03:46:56Z")
> [@Lone\_Star\_Blue](#): > > It was one thing in the original series, when the Enterprise was a training vessel, all the non-command track officers had peaked at the commander rank, and, frankly, Starfleet kinda just put them on the Enterprise 'cause they were all such pains in the ass. What? When was it said the Enterprise was a training vessel in TOS? Are you thinking of the movie? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/65 "2010-05-15T05:05:50Z")
Columbo was a Lieutenant in his first episode. 25 years later in his last episode he was still a Lieutenant. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/66 "2010-05-15T05:50:30Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Except that in Starfleet officers have always appeared to greatly out number enlisted personel (at least when enlisteds are acknowleged to exist at all). Miles O’Brian and Janice Rand are the only non-officers I can remember having any kind of recurring role at all. Starfleet has been portrayed as less & less military ever since TOS. I always wondered if Starfleet had enlisted ranks, at all. I haven’t watched any of the Star Trek series for a while, so my memory might be faulty; but I don’t recall ever hearing of a crewmember with a lower rank than “Chief” (which is presumably the 25th-century equivalent of “Chief Petty Officer” - one of the highest non-commissioned ranks in the Navy). Where were all the ratings? Surely _someone_ had to scrub the toilets and mop the floors. Guess those were the redshirt phaser-fodder guys, eh? And another thing - what would the lowest rank be? “Private” is unlikely if Starfleet is a descendant of terrestrial navies, as it seems to be; “Seaman” and “Airman” are inappropriate. So it sounds like enlisting in Starfleet makes you a “Spaceman”, which just seems silly. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/67 "2010-05-15T06:00:53Z")
Crewman? ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/68 "2010-05-15T06:17:16Z")
The lowest Starfleet rank I recall hearing of is “Ensign.” It seems to refer to people with only one rank insignia\* button on their collar. Actually, I think I recall Picard referring to Wesley Crusher as “Acting Ensign Crusher” and Wesley wearing only one empty rank insignia, rather than one full one. I believe that “Ensign” refers to someone who’s completed Starfleet Academy, and some people on board Starfleet ships have not- spouses of crew members aside, people like Guinan are clearly on the payroll but not really in Starfleet. \*Insignion? ETA: Apparently “insignia” is the singular in English, though it’s the plural in Latin, and the singular would be “insigne”. Live and learn. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/69 "2010-05-15T06:28:37Z")
If any real-life military folks are present (especially officers), I’d be curious to hear how all these cases compare with their experience. From reading WWII history, at least, I’ve gotten the impression that at some point there’s a big hurdle to further promotion, and it’s a bit of luck of the draw and who you know in order to cross it. Perhaps from colonel to general is a good example – don’t a lot of officers end their careers at the level of colonel, waiting for a promotion to brigadier general that never came? Picard’s non-promotion is more believable than Riker’s in that light, ISTM. (Isn’t captain:admiral analogous to colonel:general?) Not only had he run his ship aground, he was also investigated (perhaps more than once) for not following official policy (Prime Directive) and for “failing to do his utmost” in engagement with the enemy (the Borg/Hugh incident). I agree that in the real world his command would have been seriously at risk. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/70 "2010-05-15T06:36:36Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > The lowest Starfleet rank I recall hearing of is “Ensign.” It seems to refer to people with only one rank insignia\* button on their collar. Actually, I think I recall Picard referring to Wesley Crusher as “Acting Ensign Crusher” and Wesley wearing only one empty rank insignia, rather than one full one. I believe that “Ensign” refers to someone who’s completed Starfleet Academy, and some people on board Starfleet ships have not- spouses of crew members aside, people like Guinan are clearly on the payroll but not really in Starfleet. > > \*Insignion? > > ETA: Apparently “insignia” is the singular in English, though it’s the plural in Latin, and the singular would be “insigne”. Live and learn. If Starfleet is a descendant of Earth Navies, then an Ensign is merely the lowest-ranking commissioned officer. The US Navy, so far as I know, doesn’t even use the rank anymore - the equivalent is Lieutenant j.g. (for “junior grade”). However, “Chief” - which is how O’Brien is addressed - stands (at least in the modern Navy) for “Chief Petty Officer”, a non-commissioned officer (like a Master Sergeant). Any GIs or vets out there want to correct me, go ahead - I’ve never been in the military and could be wrong about some of this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/71 "2010-05-15T08:16:50Z")
> [@](#): > > court martialed Counselor Troi for crashing the Enterprise-D and summarily executed her? Troi wasn’t driving. Helm control gets knocked out when the warp core blows and Data does all the maneuvering from Ops from then on. ---
**Author:** ![Lone\_Star\_Blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecd19e/32.png) [@Lone\_Star\_Blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lone_Star_Blue)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/72 "2010-05-15T09:43:58Z")
> [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](#): > > What? When was it said the Enterprise was a training vessel in TOS? Are you thinking of the movie? Yes, in the original series movies when everyone was either a Commander or a Captain. In Star Trek 2, the Enterprise is a training ship. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/73 "2010-05-15T11:24:27Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Columbo was a Lieutenant in his first episode. 25 years later in his last episode he was still a Lieutenant. He busted the police commissioner for murder back in Season Three. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/74 "2010-05-15T12:32:30Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > If Starfleet is a descendant of Earth Navies, then an Ensign is merely the lowest-ranking commissioned officer. The US Navy, so far as I know, doesn’t even use the rank anymore - the equivalent is Lieutenant j.g. (for “junior grade”). However, “Chief” - which is how O’Brien is addressed - stands (at least in the modern Navy) for “Chief Petty Officer”, a non-commissioned officer (like a Master Sergeant). > > Any GIs or vets out there want to correct me, go ahead - I’ve never been in the military and could be wrong about some of this stuff. [US Navy officer ranks](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy#Commissioned_officer)are: Ensign Lieutenant Junior Grade Lieutenant Lieutenant Commander Commander Captain Five separate admiral ranks This corresponds 2nd lieutenant, 1st lieutenant, captain, major, lieutenant colonel, colonel, and the various generals. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/75 "2010-05-15T13:34:27Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Picard’s non-promotion is more believable than Riker’s in that light, ISTM. (Isn’t captain:admiral analogous to colonel:general?) Not only had he run his ship aground, he was also investigated (perhaps more than once) for not following official policy (Prime Directive) and for “failing to do his utmost” in engagement with the enemy (the Borg/Hugh incident). I agree that in the real world his command would have been seriously at risk. This actually might be supported by the movies…in TNG, Picard was supposed to have picked Riker out of a selection of candidates for his first officer when he took command of the Enterprise—a brand new ship on it’s shakedown cruise. In his last movie, Picard was merely assigned a replacement first officer, apparently without ever even _talking_ to him. I think Picard may have fallen out of favor with starfleet…a sad end for a fine officer. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/76 "2010-05-15T13:36:30Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Columbo was a Lieutenant in his first episode. 25 years later in his last episode he was still a Lieutenant. Police officers often stay the same rank for their entire careers, especially in smaller departments. ---
**Author:** ![Barking\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Barking\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barking_Dog)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/77 "2010-05-15T13:37:11Z")
Wasn’t Tasha Yar a yeoman? Where does that fit into the Starfleet officer hierarchy? Because, IIRC, a yeoman is an old word for a farmer that rents the land he works and lives on from a landlord. ---
**Author:** ![Barking\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Barking\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barking_Dog)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/78 "2010-05-15T13:50:42Z")
> [@Barking\_Dog](#): > > Wasn’t Tasha Yar a yeoman? Where does that fit into the Starfleet officer hierarchy? Because, IIRC, a yeoman is an old word for a farmer that rents the land he works and lives on from a landlord. Missed the edit window. A yeoman farmer actually owns his own land, with the rights thereof, but is not considered part of the gentry. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/79 "2010-05-15T14:24:17Z")
So we’re bitching about Riker and other people from that series, but no mention of Spock playing second banana to Kirk forever? As I have mentioned before, the next ST series needs to be more life-like in expectations. People (including major cast members) need to die and get replaced, or promoted and replaced over the life of the series. Hire the actor who plays the Captain for a seven year run, but everyone else gets only 1-5 year contracts. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326/80 "2010-05-15T15:08:56Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > She’s too cute to execute. No, no she isn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-commander-riker-syndrome/539326.md?page=5)