# The comparitive value of a Fetus, a Puppy Dog, and an Amoeba. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 6, 2001, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-comparitive-value-of-a-fetus-a-puppy-dog-and-an-amoeba/64509 "2001-05-06T03:57:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-comparitive-value-of-a-fetus-a-puppy-dog-and-an-amoeba/64509/41 "2001-05-19T22:54:47Z")
foolsguinea wrote: > [@](#): > > There is no creature it is acceptable to drive to extinction. Even the Ebola virus? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2001, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-comparitive-value-of-a-fetus-a-puppy-dog-and-an-amoeba/64509/42 "2001-05-20T03:01:14Z")
**Procacious** wrote: > [@](#): > > I can understand it when someone is upset that someone they knew died, but when a total stranger dies, why do people care? The rebuttal: > [@](#): > > No man is an Island, entire of it self; every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were; any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2001, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-comparitive-value-of-a-fetus-a-puppy-dog-and-an-amoeba/64509/43 "2001-06-01T01:16:13Z")
Even the Ebola virus. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2001, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-comparitive-value-of-a-fetus-a-puppy-dog-and-an-amoeba/64509/44 "2001-06-01T02:18:01Z")
So it is wrong to kill diseases? You people must have a lot of guilt(but none about abortion). ---
**Author:** ![ACLU\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@ACLU\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ACLU_Boy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2001, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-comparitive-value-of-a-fetus-a-puppy-dog-and-an-amoeba/64509/45 "2001-06-02T08:13:11Z")
First Procacious said: > [@](#): > > Personally, I rate the value of any individual creature based on the likelihood of that species going extinct if that individual dies. But then Procacious said: > [@](#): > > All things die and nothing that those things do in their lifetimes ever makes a permenant difference. If we nuked the entire planet, after a few hundred thousand years (or maybe a few billion, who knows) the world would be fine again. It was a nice troll until the second comment, but then your otherwise masterful argument became internally inconsistent. I’m afraid that knocks you down a bit, I’ll give you a 7.5 on the Troll-O-Meter. |-------0—| Good try, better luck next time! ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2001, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-comparitive-value-of-a-fetus-a-puppy-dog-and-an-amoeba/64509/46 "2001-06-03T12:39:21Z")
There is a certain air of arrogance in people who think it’s acceptable to be jury, judge and executioner when it comes to what’s cute enough to save and what can we step on and crush to little bits without a second thought. I’m pretty sure that fetuses dont fear death. And they aren’t leaving anyone behind who they’d miss or vice versa. And they dont have a super-ego. So it doesnt really seem like an issue to me. Anyone who doesnt see a pregnancy as a threat has got to be on some killer drugs. If an 8 lb. puppy was trying to burrow its way through my vaginal canal, ripping and tearing whatever got in its way and bringing with it a whole string of health uncertainties… I’d shoot right between the eyes without a second thought. I dont walk around killing people because A. Its illegal and B. I relate to them. I’m not saying that I’m morally in the right here, Im just saying that I, personally, can’t kill something that reminds me too much of myself. ---
**Author:** ![Raziel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4bbf92/32.png) [@Raziel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raziel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2001, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-comparitive-value-of-a-fetus-a-puppy-dog-and-an-amoeba/64509/47 "2001-06-03T13:12:27Z")
I’m with Procacious on this. What makes us so god-damned special? Human beings have killed more species, we have destroyed more resources, and we have polluted more environment than any other creature on the planet. So why do we think of ourselves as so damned valuable and sacred? Is it because we can reason? Because we’re sentient beings? I don’t buy it. The human race can go screw itself, _me included_. I’m not all high and mighty on this one…I’m part of the problem, too. When the giant asteroid (or whatever…) is hurtling towards the earth, and we all have that last minute to sit here and contemplate our lives, I’ll be smiling. Because we’ll be getting what we deserve. ---
**Author:** ![tourbot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@tourbot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tourbot)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2001, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-comparitive-value-of-a-fetus-a-puppy-dog-and-an-amoeba/64509/48 "2001-06-03T16:34:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Raziel \* > \*\* > Because we’ll be getting what we deserve. \*\* As Clint Eastwood said in _Unforgiven_: “Deserve’s got nothin’ to do with it.” ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2001, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-comparitive-value-of-a-fetus-a-puppy-dog-and-an-amoeba/64509/49 "2001-06-03T19:17:46Z")
Raziel wrote: > [@](#): > > Human beings have killed more species, we have destroyed more resources, and we have polluted more environment than any other creature on the planet. Incorrect. Cyanobacteria created **far** more air pollution, and were responsible for a far greater mass extinction, than we humans have ever been. These selfish critters took over the planet some 3 billion years ago and excreted so much waste oxygen that nearly all non-aerotolerant life on the planet was wiped out – they were literally burned alive by all that noxious oxygen dissolved in the Earth’s oceans. Before cyanobacteria came along, the Earth had a thriving ecosystem consisting almost entirely of non-aerotolerant organisms. But as soon as cyanobacteria caused this “oxygen holocaust,” hardly any of these earlier species survived. Sure, human activity hasn’t exactly had zero environmental impact either, but let’s get some perspective here. ---
**Author:** ![Raziel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4bbf92/32.png) [@Raziel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raziel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2001, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-comparitive-value-of-a-fetus-a-puppy-dog-and-an-amoeba/64509/50 "2001-06-03T21:27:56Z")
Hmm. Ok, I’m starting a new campaign. DEATH TO ALL CYANOBACTERIA! Unless they’re already gone…in that case, problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![Fosfero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/82dd89/32.png) [@Fosfero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fosfero)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2001, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-comparitive-value-of-a-fetus-a-puppy-dog-and-an-amoeba/64509/51 "2001-06-04T15:49:18Z")
I’ve been lurking for some time but this thread is so good, I’ve gotta jump in. Microscopic nasties are a threat to our health and sometimes our lives. We kill them without thinking and I have no problem with this. Other creatures die to suit our purposes and as long as it is for a ‘reasonable cause’ (good food source, grave and immediate threat, etc.) I have no objections there, either. The puppy case is interesting because puppies are cute and very useful. They also apparently “love” us humans, no matter how irresponsibly we treat them individually and as a whole. I believe that most dogs are programmed to display this “love” for their caregivers. Obviously if you abuse your dog, you may get bitten(and deservedly so!) but for the most part they are just naturally giving creatures. (IMHO) Ecco homo! We are conscious. We can deny our instincts. Our spirits will at times lead us to contradict what our experience inclines us to do. We can CHOOSE to love or not to love. As antropocentic as I will be accused of being…I believe this makes us humans special. It is no more moral to kill a puppy without good reason than it is to kill a human fetus. Both actions harm the killer. The killer of the puppy deepens his sadism (and his secret guilt, anger and self-loathing )and the killer of the fetus denies themselves the opportunity to exercise the greatest privilege ever known. The privilege of loving an unknown person, at a potentialy imense sacrifice with no guaranteed reward. Sounds illogical but that is part of having a soul. Something completely unique to humans. We can deny our self-serving instincts and raise a potentially handicapped child in a cruel world. Our spirits can choose to take resposibility for yielding to what our bodies demand we do. Or not…☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-comparitive-value-of-a-fetus-a-puppy-dog-and-an-amoeba/64509.md?page=2)