# The completely smug density of right wingers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2022, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122 "2022-06-29T16:28:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/141 "2022-07-28T16:04:39Z")
Thank you. It does haunt me. I dream about it. It makes me terribly sad, because as @The_Librarian correctly states, they can’t have “ignored” it. I use the term because it is so painful to make sense of watching the parents I grew up with having been so entirely co-opted by right-wing Faux “News” garbage. They literally chose to move further away from me in their twilight years instead of closer, as we had all agreed for decades they would, because they couldn’t stomach their perception of our politics here in Oregon. Instead, they moved to one of the Trumpiest places on the planet. They did this without telling me. Lots and lots of stupid excuses, but we know the real reason: Trump. Thanks for your kind thoughts, truly. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/142 "2022-07-28T16:05:43Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > The people I work with voted for trump the first time because of only two things: R, and NotHillary. But don’t you see? That’s just as bad — arguably, worse! To not take one’s responsibility as a voter seriously enough to consider any one of the hundred clear reasons to not vote for Trump … wow. At least I have a little respect for the self-aware fascists racists that took at least two minutes to listen to Trump, and say, “I like that!” ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/143 "2022-07-28T16:12:19Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > > > The people I work with voted for trump the first time because of only two things: R, and NotHillary. > > But don’t you see? That’s just as bad — arguably, worse! Oh, I agree, but that’s “moving the goalposts”. The Librarian said _all_ trump voters were evil, but some are just apathetic, lazy and ill-informed. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/144 "2022-07-28T16:15:46Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > It’s not that we’re expecting the US masses to have known a lot about Trump before early 2020. I don’t know who you’re representing with “we”, but this thread is full of comments asserting quite insistently and angrily that every person ought to have known exactly everything about Trump even before he was a serious candidate: > [@JKellyMap](#): > > The very latest anyone could claim they still didn’t know exactly what this guy was about was 1989, when he ran that Central Park Five ad in the Times. > [@JKellyMap](#): > > No one was fooled. Every 2016 Trump voter knew exactly what they were getting, and they got it. (which, to be fair, you backed off of later in the thread) > [@Acsenray](#): > > I never once in my life went out of my way to learn anything about Trump. He went out of his way to make sure everyone in the world knew as much about him as possible. And none of it was good. He made himself clear to the world. He made it even clearer when he started campaigning for president. > [@Akaj](#): > > I guess you were fortunate to have missed his years-long Twitter campaign to “prove” Obama was born in Kenya. I don’t even have a Twitter account yet somehow I was not only aware of it but disgusted by it > [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Most people also know that Trump was one of the few people who actually lost money in the casino business > [@Monty](#): > > I’m not. I grew up on the East coast, mostly close to Washington, DC. Even when I was a kid that far south of New York, we all knew what kind of scum Tan the Conman was. > [@madmonk28](#): > > You didn’t know that he was a vocal promoter of the racist birther conspiracy theory when Obama was president? Read a newspaper for fuck’s sake. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Or Wikipedia for fucking fuck’s sake, ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/145 "2022-07-28T16:17:53Z")
@Eonwe Sorry, I mixed up my dates! Replace “early 2020” with “early 2016” (when the primaries were heating up) in each of my recent posts. I hope it’s very clear that I do not accept “but I was fooled!” as an excuse for anyone who voted for Trump in 2016 (at the VERY LATEST, they knew what he was about by February of that year\*)…and, even more obviously, anyone who voted for him in 2020 couldn’t have been “fooled,” ipso facto. I think “we” are among the many posters in complete agreement in this thread. \*Yes, I did initially make a case for “Americans knew what Trump was about for MANY YEARS BEFORE 2016.” I later realized I’d overstated this, though there’s still some truth to it. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/146 "2022-07-28T16:26:32Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > comments asserting quite insistently and angrily that every person ought to have known exactly everything about Trump > [@Akaj](#): > > I guess you were fortunate to have missed his years-long Twitter campaign to “prove” Obama was born in Kenya. I don’t even have a Twitter account yet somehow I was not only aware of it but disgusted by it I never said anything close to “every person ought to have known exactly everything about Trump.” I suggested that you didn’t have to be extremely well-informed to know about _one_ thing – the birther conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/147 "2022-07-28T16:31:55Z")
If there was ignorance out there among Trump voters, I put forth that it was _deliberate_ ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/148 "2022-07-28T16:43:56Z")
Fair enough. I think that coverage of the campaign and reporting on the candidate during the campaign made Trump’s general direction pretty clear (though I still think it was reasonable and un-surprising if folks took in everything in and voted for him anyway because of party affiliation or vague senses of “likeability” or whatever. It happens in decision making all the time, but just typically with less impact than a presidential election). But, folks in this thread are speaking specifically about knowledge that people “should have had” about a random celebrity prior to his becoming a political figure. I say that’s nonsense. > [@Akaj](#): > > I never said anything close to “every person ought to have known exactly everything about Trump.” I suggested that you didn’t have to be extremely well-informed to know about _one_ thing – the birther conspiracy. Ok. I think you’re wildly incorrect about that. Again, why should anyone, even if they caught that detail about a celebrity’s take on “birtherism” if/when it blipped periodically in the news cycle, have remembered it? In an effort to declare what others “ought” to have known and understood, you and others demonstrate a gross misunderstanding about how people access and remember trivia. And that’s what Trump’s tweets about birtherism were prior to his becoming a candidate for president. Trivia. Trivial. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/149 "2022-07-28T16:53:48Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > And that’s what Trump’s tweets about birtherism were prior to his becoming a candidate for president. Trivia. Trivial. But that’s the problem! If I understand, you admit that many people KNEW about this, but found it “trivial.” Trivial at the time (2012) — that’s bad (IMHO). Trivial in 2016, when they could add this memory to all the other things they were then learning about Trump as an actual candidate…even worse. I hesitate to use the word “woke,” with all the baggage it’s acquired, but maybe it comes down to that. In 2012, someone (as most did) finds out there’s this guy from The Apprentice who’s trying to enter politics, by claiming Obama is un-American, and should not be President because he’s lying about where he was born. If your reaction is “that’s some racist shit,” you get it. You get Trump. You hate it. And you vote for Clinton four years later. If your reaction is “hell yeah!,” you get Trump. You love it. You vote for him, four years later. If your reaction is “that’s trivial”…well, I would argue you simply don’t get it. You are very much un-woke. You probably vote for Trump four years later. Should I sympathize with this third voter? Believe me, I’ve tried. I get the demographics and cultural change and all that crap. But in the end, they have failed. Failed. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/150 "2022-07-28T16:54:08Z")
It was just a blip! Really! How could anyone be aware of this? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/HHckZCxdRkA/hqdefault.jpg "Watch Obama roast Trump") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHckZCxdRkA) Oh… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/151 "2022-07-28T16:55:58Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Ok. I think you’re wildly incorrect about that. Again, why should anyone, even if they caught that detail about a celebrity’s take on “birtherism” if/when it blipped periodically in the news cycle, have remembered it? > > In an effort to declare what others “ought” to have known and understood, you and others demonstrate a gross misunderstanding about how people access and remember trivia. And that’s what Trump’s tweets about birtherism were prior to his becoming a candidate for president. Trivia. Trivial. _Trivia??_ The media that push Trump into their brains heavily promoted that “Birther” crap almost every fucking day. Downplaying this fact just doesn’t cut it. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/152 "2022-07-28T17:03:53Z")
I’ll point out that to reassure voters concerned about his clinging to the birther conspiracy, Trump admitted it was incorrect during his presidential campaign. > **[Trump admits Obama was born in U.S., but falsely blames Clinton for starting...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/09/16/trump-admits-obama-was-born-in-u-s-but-falsely-blames-clinton-for-starting-rumors/)** > > In distancing himself from one conspiracy theory, Trump embraced another: that Clinton started the birther movement. Of course, being the insane asshole he is, he blamed Hillary for starting it all, 🙄 But for those who were only concerned about that controversy, it might have been enough to reassure them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/153 "2022-07-28T17:08:13Z")
Did he ever go back using that false claim after the one time he said it wasn’t true? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/154 "2022-07-28T17:10:25Z")
Interesting point - thanks. Of course, the New Fact that low-info voters got in 2012 wasn’t that “the Apprentice guy said Obama is Kenyan-born, so maybe it’s true.” Rather, the New Fact they got was “ **The Apprentice guy is ballsy and ‘real’ enough to _go there_.”** That impression doesn’t go away, retraction be damned. It’s a preview of the 2020-21 “stolen election” crap, of course. It’s not that someone actually believes it (though some did)…it’s that they admire how Trump _goes there._ ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/155 "2022-07-28T17:15:24Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > If I understand, you admit that many people KNEW about this, but found it “trivial.” Trivial at the time (2012) — that’s bad (IMHO). I’m saying that what it means to “know” something is not well defined. If I learned something once, is there something wrong with forgetting it? How many and which people’s opinions on birtherism is it “bad” to have not cared much about in 2012? Is it bad to not know or have retained information about what John Cusack or Stanley Tucci or Leonardo DiCaprio or Natalie Portman thought about Obama’s birth certificate? Is it ok to not know what Trump thought about supply side economics in 2012? My point is that it is only because of the aftermath of 2016 that anyone is positing that it was an ethical or intellectual failure to not have known this particular (or even a small set of particular) opinion of this particular celebrity. I knew so many things in 2012 that I probably forgot within months, let alone two, three, or four years down the road. At that moment in 2012, not being able to predict the future, could you identify which things it was important for me (and for most people in America) to retain and which it was not? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/156 "2022-07-28T17:19:51Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Of course, being the insane asshole he is, he blamed Hillary for starting it all, 🙄 I remember how disgusted I was by that display. No apology to Obama or display of maturity at all, instead deciding to throw yet more mud, baselessly. And (correctly, as it happens) treating his supporters as absolute morons. But I hadn’t thought about it in years, as it got eclipsed by so many other disgusting episodes. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/157 "2022-07-28T17:19:53Z")
I don’t think it was ever brought up again, at least from what I can find from searching the news. Once he dropped it, most other people did too. He was saying so much other bullshit that I doubt many people cared about that old news anymore, He did reportedly later admit to using the race card as a weapon. That he knew it was bad, but did it anyway. He’s well aware that he’s being harmful but doesn’t care as long as it gets him what he wants. > **[Trump on Race Card: 'It's Bad but It Works'](https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-racism-morning-joe-1201619)** > > "Racism in his mind, works. That's what the told us," Mika Brezizinski said of Trump. > _Morning Joe_ co-host Mika Brezizinski said that she and co-host Joe Scarborough confronted Trump about pushing the birther conspiracy theory that questioned whether former President Barack Obama had been born in the United States. > > “We said it’s bad, it’s wrong, and he said in a low voice, ‘I know it’s bad but it works,’” Brezizinski said. “Racism in his mind, works. That’s what he told us.” ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/158 "2022-07-28T17:22:55Z")
Fair enough. As I said repeatedly, for me (and you, too, if I understand correctly), “ignorance is no excuse” clearly kicks in in early 2016. Before that (including 2012), it’s a valid excuse…but it still irks me that anyone would find “the Apprentice guy” an attractive choice for President, whatever one’s political leanings. Again, I admit this is a bit of my snobbery showing through. One of my favorite books has long been the Sterns’ _Encyclopedia of Bad Taste_ (all Dopers would love it!). It was published in the mid 80s. If it had been published just a few years later, Trump would surely have been honored with a long chapter — lovingly and sympathetically researched and written, like all the other chapters. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/159 "2022-07-28T17:24:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _Trivia??_ The media that push Trump into their brains heavily promoted that “Birther” crap almost every fucking day. Downplaying this fact just doesn’t cut it. This is obviously a loosing argument here, and maybe a hijack, but I’ll say a last time: how much news is there? Which of it sticks and which of it doesn’t? I’m not suggesting that the facts aren’t there to find. I’m only suggesting that there was no obvious incentive or reason to consider the opinions of Donald Trump as something worth filing away as important information in 2012. It rises only slightly above the significance of any other piece of celebrity gossip for the average American at that point. Today, which celebrities’ political opinions today am I given a pass for not knowing and which celebrities’ political opinions (and which opinions) am I responsible for knowing two years from now? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122/160 "2022-07-28T17:31:04Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > This is obviously a loosing argument here, and maybe a hijack, but I’ll say a last time: how much news is there? Which of it sticks and which of it doesn’t? There was(and still is, to a slightly lesser extent) a shit-ton of right wing “news” out there pushing Trump and his insane ramblings. This isn’t a matter of “The public _might_ have stumbled across a _bit_ of this sometime over the course of the election campaigns but, golly, who knows if they remember any of it?” . This was a concentrated campaign shoved into our faces every fucking day, so quit trying to downplay and trivialize it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-completely-smug-density-of-right-wingers/967122.md?page=9)