# The concept of affirmative consent for sexual encounters **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 2, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147 "2013-10-02T00:26:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/141 "2013-10-06T20:30:20Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > No, but she’ll do crap like forget to take the Pill and then not get the pregnancy confirmed until it’s too late for a legal abortion. Yeah, well, for some guys, just about anything is better than no sex at all. Not defending it. Just sayin’. Take this guy: > [@](#): > > From the age of 18-29 i traveled a road that lead me to believe i wasn’t human, wasn’t worthy of love, wasn’t deserving of companionship and that i would probably be better off dead. > > I lost my virginity at late 17 to a girl and our relationship lasted for just over 5 months. When it ended i fell into a deep depression. What i should have been told at that moment was to identify what was it about me that made me lack confidence, to fix it and to head back out into the world. To listen to the guys who were #winning > > Instead i followed my feminist programming and female advice off a cliff into hell. > > Feminism taught me a lot throughout the 80′s and 90′s. It taught me not to question women’s sexual choices. It taught me to treat them with deference and respect. It taught me not to accost them for sex aggressively, but to treat them as human beings. It taught me that i MUST control my shallow, greedy, dangerous impulses but allow a woman the right to indulge in hers. It taught me to be nice for the sake of being nice and not expecting sex in return. To give all my emotional and platonic ability and not dare ask for intimacy in return. > **[Confessions of a Reformed InCel](https://whoism3.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/confessions-of-a-reformed-incel/)** > > \[UPDATE 4-26-2018\] It’s been almost 4 years since i left this space of the internet. It’s been almost 6 years since i wrote the below post. A lot changes with time away from the sphere.… ---
**Author:** ![BrianJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@BrianJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrianJ)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/142 "2013-10-06T20:31:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > [del]No[/del], I mean yes. 😃 > (del)stuff(/del); just replace the () with symbols. Great, thanks! ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/143 "2013-10-06T20:38:12Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > Which it actually is. Of course, with a long-term girlfriend you’re likely to have a pretty good handle on what is and is not consent. Which is precisely why this policy is silly. > [@Ibn Warraq](#): > > I’m genuinely stunned by the claims of the various guys on this thread who are seem to be seriously petrified over this law and take seriously the idea that they could wind up being falsely accused of rape after having consensual sex with a woman. > > Look, I’ll concede to having twice tried to kiss a woman who I thought wanted to be kissed and it turned out didn’t want to be and I’d just misread signals, but that’s hugely different than having sex with a woman and finding out afterwords she hadn’t wanted to have it. > > Guys, life isn’t a movie. As evidence, the women I tried to kiss didn’t suddenly slap me across the face and cry out “What kind of girl do you take me for!” but instead were rather shocked, embarrassed, and actually in both cases feeling a little guilty that they might have done something that I misinterpreted. False accusations of rape definitely happen. It’s virtually impossible to put a number on how often, and honestly I have no idea of how realistic of a threat it is. At least for me personally, it’s much higher than the chance that I might accidentally rape someone. > **[False accusation of rape](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape)** > > A false accusation of rape happens when a person states that they or another person have been raped when no rape has occurred. Although there are widely varying estimates of the prevalence of false accusation of rape, according to a 2013 book on forensic victimology, very few reliable scientific studies have been conducted. > Rates of false accusation are sometimes inflated or misrepresented due to conflation of false with designations such as unfounded. Designations such as unfounded allow law en... > [@Aeschines](#): > > Yes, I agree that, on a micro level, the rule has problems. Technically, according to the rule, if grab my long-term girlfriend’s tits from behind, I didn’t ask, and that’s bad. But no one would ever be “prosecuted” by the school for something on that level. Use your common sense! _shrug_ I’d prefer policies to make sense and not prohibit normal behavior rather than relying on the discretion of administrators. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/144 "2013-10-06T21:01:18Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I refuse to be bullied by the word rape. > > If the difference between getting raped and having the rapist you just dated go home immediately is “Y’know… I’d rather not have sex”, maybe women who date should act like adults and make their feelings known. > > Because, frankly, a rapist, a felon who deserves a long stint in prison and lifetime designation as a sexual offender isn’t going to be stopped by “I’m tired, can you go home now?” The scenario you are describing (woman can’t be bothered to say no to unwanted sex, is raped because she just sits there silently) never happens. Either your partner consents to sex, does not consent to sex, or is considered legally incapable of consent due to age or impairment. These are the only options. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/145 "2013-10-06T21:03:33Z")
> [@grude](#): > > It is weird but it absolutely exists. I was once so confused by bizarre and conflicting signals it took her yelling sarcastically if she had to lay naked on her bed all night. That was as close to verbal confirmation I was going to get. Well actually that WAS verbal confirmation. Would bet if you had asked “well, why couldn’t you say so all along” there would have ensued a heated argument as to how that’s not how it works, resulting in no sex for you anyway. [QUOTE=Nava] Not afraid, but some think that if the guy paid for dinner he paid to “go inside for a cup of coffee”. You know, same as some guys think that if they ask you to marry them you must say “yes” or that if they ask you out and you say no it makes you a bitch? It’s called stupidity, not fear. Maybe we should come up with a “don’t put your dick in the stupìd” rule. [/QUOTE] It should go w/o saying that we should have one. It baffles me that on 2013AD there are women who still feel they need to be accommodating at everything to avoid upsetting the other person or that they can’t own their decisions. But there they are… [QUOTE=LinusK] I’m not sure where you’re going with the “don’t put your dick in stupid” rule - and I’m married, now, so I’m basically celibate (j/k - kinda) - but back in the day I failed even the “don’t put your dick in crazy” rule, which is way more hazardous than the stupid rule. At least stupid won’t call the cops and make shit up to get you arrested because you don’t want to see her anymore. When you’re 20 you can’t eliminate 3/4 of the female population when your chances of getting laid are minuscule to begin with. [/QUOTE] Crazy + stupid = 75% of the sample? :dubious: Dang. Tell me what town was that so I can tell the young folk to avoid it. If the odds are than bad it’s actually better NOT to play to begin with. So, you don’t get laid when you’re 20. You will not spontaneously combust, it has been proven. > [@](#): > > Yeah, well, for some guys, just about anything is better than no sex at all. Not defending it. Just sayin’. Take this guy: Holy Wordy Head Case, Batman. That’s a lot of stupid + crazy in just one guy right there. Maybe spontaneous combustion _would_ have been better for him. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/146 "2013-10-06T21:23:26Z")
> [@BrianJ](#): > > No parent I’m aware of would ever willingly broach such a subject with their kids either. I think there is a lot more variety in parenting styles than you are aware of. I know girls who got their first vibrator from their mom on their 16th birthday. I don’t think there are many “Sit down, son, and let me tell you all about it” type conversations, but I do think there are fathers out there that talk about “technique”, if you will, with their sons. They do it the way parents and kids talk about everything important: in little asides buried in mundane, day-to-day conversations. I know there are fathers that warn about “don’t stick your dick in the crazy” and such things. If that’s true, then we can also have fathers who say “If she’s the sort to say no when she means yes, you don’t want to be involved with her anyway”. But the conversation doesn’t have to be father-to-son. It can be uncle-to-nephew, much older brother-to little brother, teen exploitation flick-to-audience, but however the meme is transmitted, there is a definite idea out there that “No” means “No for now, so you won’t think I am a slut later”. And boys believe it because they really, really want to, and sometimes not-really-horrible-people do horrible things because they are lying to themselves as hard as they can. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/147 "2013-10-06T22:14:38Z")
> [@BrianJ](#): > > Yes, real life rarely lines up with peoples fantasies. I agree. And can we therefore agree that while romance novels and romantic comedies are popular, in real life for most women - if what happened in The Flame and The Flower happened, they’d be traumatized. If anyone actually acted like Tom Hanks in You’ve Got Mail, many women would be creeped out. (He is vastly out creeped by Meg Ryan in Sleepless in Seattle, though). Because real life rarely lives up to people’s fantasies and the popularity of a genre does not mean we want those events to happen to is in the real life fashion. I know a lot of Breaking Bad fans - I know very few who really want to run a meth operation. Why can’t the same be true for women and romance novels? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/148 "2013-10-07T00:19:12Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > You can’t speak for all women. You are right, now I’ll ask again - how will you know that the woman you are with agrees with me unless you ask? And, perhaps most importantly - in the situation you are in with her - because maybe she doesn’t agree with me in theory (see previous reference to Channing Tatum and a pirate ship), but you aren’t Channing Tatum and your dorm room isn’t a pirate ship. (There is a situation in one of the romance novels I read where the heroine has two admirers - one whom she loves and one who she has firmly put in the friend category. The friend asks her if such a romantic lady wouldn’t love to be abducted. She responds that sounds wonderful - thinking of the man she loves. Hilarity ensues when the friend - masked, of course - abducts her and she thinks its the man she loves. Of course, the happy ending is that the man she loves rescues her (not that she really needs rescuing, since her abductor didn’t mean to harm her - it was all a misunderstanding and all resolved happily ever after - with, by the way, no sex on the pages of the book). Yes, not all communication is verbal - if she is pushing your head down into her crotch - that is a pretty good non verbal communication. If she is tugging on your zipper and pulling down your pants, that is pretty good non verbal communication. But the question hasn’t been about those non-ambiguous non-verbal signals, but about the ambiguous ones. If her eyes are saying “yes, yes” - that is much more ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/149 "2013-10-07T04:08:09Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > If the odds are than bad it’s actually better NOT to play to begin with. So, you don’t get laid when you’re 20. You will not spontaneously combust, it has been proven… See, this is where I can tell you’ve never been a twenty year old man. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/150 "2013-10-07T06:49:27Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Yes, not all communication is verbal - if she is pushing your head down into her crotch - that is a pretty good non verbal communication. I hope she attained affirmative consent first. You can’t just go around assuming people want their heads pushed into your crotch. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/151 "2013-10-07T09:36:29Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > See, this is where I can tell you’ve never been a twenty year old man. You’re joking, right? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/152 "2013-10-07T13:05:01Z")
Maybe he’s quoting the guy in that last link whose brain melted from pussy deprivation in his “prime drive years”. Sure, we can laugh about it, _“Huhuhuhuh, at age 20 we men are total idiots, during HS/college age we’re ruled by our dicks, would put it in anything with a pulse, that’s why fathers of girls keep shotguns harharhar”_. But the thread subject involves in part a school policy that expects _college-age people_ to be able to hold out for clear signals or walk away from it, because they\*\* factually can do so \*\*and it’s the right thing, or else they’ll be suspect of a sexual assault… and “20 year old idiot” is not valid as a mitigating plea. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/153 "2013-10-07T14:29:47Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > I hope she attained affirmative consent first. You can’t just go around assuming people want their heads pushed into your crotch. You are right - as tries has pointed out, with a long term partner - someone you trust - that sort of pushing and pulling is ok - where on a first encounter with someone - you should never assume that they do oral. And even with a long term partner - it isn’t ok to assume oral is ok right now, unless you are pushing with some sort of affirmation that its ok. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/154 "2013-10-07T14:32:47Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > When you are in a sexual situation, you need to ask yourself “is my partner here of his or her own free will” - did they come to a place appropriate for sex with no pretense (i.e. you didn’t push your way in to use the phone after she told you she was going in, and then make your move- to dredge up one of the last old threads on this), are they under any physical coercion (they can leave - if you are in HER apartment - maybe she doesn’t feel like she can leave - did she ask you to stay there - its probably not at bad idea at some point to say “maybe I should go” and see if she say “no, stay.”). Are they under economic coercion (you paid for a fancy dinner and she feels some sort of obligation - in which case just say it "look, I’m not the kind of guy who thinks you need to put out just because I took you to Le Petite Snobbery, but I really do like you and if you really want to do this, I want to do this.) Are they sober - if they seem to drunk to be making good decisions, be a gentlemen - if she jumps you (and that’s ok with you), go for it, but “I’ll sleep on the couch” is the gentlemanly thing to do. Has she seemed unbalanced - is there something odd about her which would make you think she’d come onto you under the impression that you’d beat her if she didn’t. If there isn’t any reason to think she might be unbuttoning her shirt because she’s being coerced, you are probably safe to take that as affirmative consent - but if you are still so bad at reading people that you don’t know - ASK! “Are we going to have sex?” Reading your list : Is there a point where the woman is fully responsible for her complete lack of ability to communicate, total lack of assertiveness, absolute inability to manage social interactions, general absence of self-restraint, and so on? Because the way you put it, it looks like a speech intended for summer camp counselors who will have to take care of 9 y.o. kids. Noticing that in a latter post, you mention that men should also make sure that their partners won’t have mere “regreted sex”, I think you need to remember that women are nowadays generally considered as responsible adults, and responsible adults tend to have to live with the consequences of their decisions and actions, and can’t expect to be protected from self-inflicted harm by other people. And besides, regreted sex is an incredibly common experience, about as grievious as regreted dinner with boring friends or regreted pick of rental for vacations. I don’t even understand how it came to be mentioned in this thread. While I’m at it, refering to one of your earlier posts, where you mention making sure the partner is willing at every step can be achieved by some dirty talk : I dislike dirty talk. Like I guess about everybody else, I’ve no interest in clinical talk while having sex, either. If you don’t mind I’ll keep relying on non-verbal clues at the risk of unknowingly becoming a dangerous rapist whether because my partner of 25 years isn’t really in the mood tonight or because my one night stand should never have received her “adult” membership card. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/155 "2013-10-07T14:38:34Z")
**clairobscur** , it’s not “regretted sex”; it’s “having sex because you don’t think you have an option not to, since the script has been followed and the next point says ‘have sex’”. You live in a culture where people are a lot less likely than Americans to have those damned mental scripts, and I’m going to leave it at that before I get my second Pitting. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/156 "2013-10-07T15:41:11Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > **clairobscur** , it’s not “regretted sex”; it’s “having sex because you don’t think you have an option not to, since the script has been followed and the next point says ‘have sex’”. You live in a culture where people are a lot less likely than Americans to have those damned mental scripts, and I’m going to leave it at that before I get my second Pitting. She did refer to “regretted sex”. At which point we are far beyond the issue of rape. Regarding your own comment : if a woman really has this “He paid for the restaurant, so I must spread my legs” script, then presumably she should abstain from accepting an invitation to the restaurant from men she doesn’t want to have sex with, since consent to one is functionnally equivalent to consent to the other in her mind. Alternatively, she could realize we’re living in the 21st century. Her partners presumably aren’t diviners/psychoanalysts/custodians and can’t be expected to fill all three roles. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/157 "2013-10-07T17:25:03Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Reading your list : > > Is there a point where the woman is fully responsible for her complete lack of ability to communicate, total lack of assertiveness, absolute inability to manage social interactions, general absence of self-restraint, and so on? > > Because the way you put it, it looks like a speech intended for summer camp counselors who will have to take care of 9 y.o. kids. > > Noticing that in a latter post, you mention that men should also make sure that their partners won’t have mere “regreted sex”, I think you need to remember that women are nowadays generally considered as responsible adults, and responsible adults tend to have to live with the consequences of their decisions and actions, and can’t expect to be protected from self-inflicted harm by other people. > > And besides, regreted sex is an incredibly common experience, about as grievious as regreted dinner with boring friends or regreted pick of rental for vacations. I don’t even understand how it came to be mentioned in this thread. > > While I’m at it, refering to one of your earlier posts, where you mention making sure the partner is willing at every step can be achieved by some dirty talk : I dislike dirty talk. Like I guess about everybody else, I’ve no interest in clinical talk while having sex, either. If you don’t mind I’ll keep relying on non-verbal clues at the risk of unknowingly becoming a dangerous rapist whether because my partner of 25 years isn’t really in the mood tonight or because my one night stand > should never have received her “adult” membership card. At every point a woman is also responsible for communicating - AND getting permission. I’ve tried, as much as I can and can remember to remain gender neutral. Two lesbians need consent as much as a hetero couple. Women CAN push men too far. The biggest problem here is that in the U.S., when you get your adult woman membership card, some men don’t believe a NO. It might mean “later” It might mean "I don’t want you to think I’m a slut, " it might mean something else. And hey, boobies, so why take it at face value. And so a woman with her adult card can say no, and no isn’t treated like no. And frankly, sometimes men aren’t having sex with women who have their adult card - they are too drunk too protest. Or too damaged. (And frequently, women aren’t having sex with men who have their adult card, which is why you get “hey boobies.” And no, not everyone likes clinical talk. Nor does everyone like to talk dirty. But if actions are ambiguous to you, then words are about the only way you are going to get clarification. You are going to have to find a way that works for you and your partner to communicate. And if actions aren’t ambiguous to you, and you know and trust your partner to know that she would let you know if you tried something she didn’t like (via words or actions), then don’t worry about policies like this - they aren’t addressing your situation. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/158 "2013-10-07T19:01:36Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Crazy + stupid = 75% of the sample? :dubious: Dang. Tell me what town was that so I can tell the young folk to avoid it. Well, 25% of the population is stupid, right? And 50% of women are crazy (that’s been scientifically proven). So it’s just basic math. I mean, if you’re fishing with a big pole, I guess you can throw the little ones back. But when you’re hungry, you got to go with what you can get. > [@](#): > > If the odds are than bad it’s actually better NOT to play to begin with. So, you don’t get laid when you’re 20. You will not spontaneously combust, it has been proven. Let me put it in terms a female can understand. Suppose you’re hungry. You haven’t eaten in three days. Then somebody serves up a big fat slice of chocolate cake. Are you going to say, “I’m not going to eat that, because maybe it has gluten in it”? Or are you going to say, “fuck that, I’m going to eat the goddamn cake”? I’m not defending anything. I’m just saying men are men. Just because sex is a take-it-or-leave it kind of thing for you, doesn’t mean it’s that way for everybody. > [@](#): > > Holy Wordy Head Case, Batman. That’s a lot of stupid + crazy in just one guy right there. Maybe spontaneous combustion _would_ have been better for him. Well, maybe. He did say he thought about killing himself. So maybe he should have done that. On the other hand, he does say he eventually learned to be a player, so I guess things worked out OK in the end. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/159 "2013-10-07T19:28:19Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Let me put it in terms a female can understand. Suppose you’re hungry. You haven’t eaten in three days. Then somebody serves up a big fat slice of chocolate cake. Are you going to say, “I’m not going to eat that, because maybe it has gluten in it”? The analogy works better if you put it as someone cutting up a piece of chocolate cake and leaving it on the table. Are you going to ask if you can have that cake, or assume that since it’s unattended on the table you can have it? What if the person who had the cake doesn’t want to give you a piece, but you cooked supper, so they feel forced to reciprocate? Or what if they’re afraid that if they don’t give you the slice of cake you’ll get angry at them and yell, or worse, just take the cake anyway? I mean, you’re hungry after all. I hope your mother taught you to ask if you can have cake first, instead of assuming that because it’s there you can have it. Oh, and if I had celiac’s disease, damn right I’d make sure it was gluten-free before I had it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147/160 "2013-10-07T19:41:45Z")
Yo, ground control to Major **LinusK** , do read my last prior post. > [@LinusK](#): > > Let me put it in terms a female can understand. Ladies, y’all take him up on that one. Got a feeling that’s not quite how female minds work, either, but I’ll leave it to those who are. > [@](#): > > Just because sex is a take-it-or-leave it kind of thing for you, doesn’t mean it’s that way for everybody. Nobody on this thread is advocating a life of celibacy. Just that when in doubt, walk away **and you can always move on and go find someone else who WILL be clearly for it**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-affirmative-consent-for-sexual-encounters/670147.md?page=9)