# the concept of faith **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 27, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270 "2013-08-27T02:07:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/241 "2013-10-12T14:48:55Z")
> [@jsutter](#): > > Sufficient quantitative change _always_ results in qualitative change. I don’t think so-my signature is my cite. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/242 "2013-10-12T14:53:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I don’t think so-my signature is my cite. Let me try to explain it to you. The more you learn the wiser you become. Maybe that will be understandable to you. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/243 "2013-10-12T14:56:38Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Let me try to explain it to you. The more you learn the wiser you become. > Maybe that will be understandable to you. Not necessarily-It depends on what you seek to learn, what you allow yourself to learn and from who you learn it from. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/244 "2013-10-12T14:57:30Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Let me try to explain it to you. The more you learn the wiser you become. > Maybe that will be understandable to you. There is a quantitative and qualitative difference between knowledge and wisdom. having sufficient quantities of either do not equate to being more of one than the other in any sense of quality. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/245 "2013-10-12T15:01:50Z")
Dr. Raymond Moody has shared a video on his Google+ that shows how faith turns into knowing. I just had to post it. [https://plus.google.com/112390869281589392177/posts/8GZB1qXgPGT?cfem=1](https://plus.google.com/112390869281589392177/posts/8GZB1qXgPGT?cfem=1) ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/246 "2013-10-12T15:04:11Z")
> [@simster](#): > > There is a quantitative and qualitative difference between knowledge and wisdom. having sufficient quantities of either do not equate to being more of one than the other in any sense of quality. Huh? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/247 "2013-10-12T15:05:54Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Dr. Raymond Moody has shared a video on his Google+ that > shows how faith turns into knowing. I just had to post it. Thank you for proving my point. One does not grow wiser by only gathering information that supports an already-held viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/248 "2013-10-12T15:07:08Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Huh? You’ll understand it eventually - you just have to try harder and meditate on it a bit. ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/249 "2013-10-12T15:10:41Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Let me try to explain it to you. The more you learn the wiser you become. > Maybe that will be understandable to you. I was wrong. You haven’t learned your lesson yet. 🙂 Aloha ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/250 "2013-10-12T18:53:24Z")
> [@jsutter](#): > > I was wrong. You haven’t learned your lesson yet. 🙂 > Aloha No I guess your are right. ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/251 "2013-10-12T19:05:15Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > No I guess your are right. Here’s your lesson in a nutshell. You should enjoy this. Aloha > **[Comedy Central The Daily Show Fan Page](https://www.cc.com/fan-hub/the-daily-show)** > > The source for The Daily Show fans, with episodes hosted by Jon Stewart, Ronny Chieng, Jordan Klepper, Dulcé Sloan and more, plus interviews, highlights and The Weekly Show podcast. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/252 "2013-10-12T19:05:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Thank you for proving my point. One does not grow wiser by only gathering information that supports an already-held viewpoint. I keep thinking that whether this event is all in the mind or something spiritual you will eventually experience it also. So it may mean something when it happens to you. ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/253 "2013-10-12T19:12:27Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I keep thinking that whether this event is all in the mind or something spiritual you will eventually experience it also. So it may mean something when it happens to you. It will … eventually. Aloha ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/254 "2013-10-12T19:13:57Z")
> [@jsutter](#): > > Here’s your lesson in a nutshell. You should enjoy this. Aloha > > [Comedy Central The Daily Show Fan Page](http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-june-17-2010/fred-thompson) That is funny. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/255 "2013-10-12T19:13:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Thank you for proving my point. One does not grow wiser by only gathering information that supports an already-held viewpoint. I agree 100% with this. Early \*\*lekatt \*\*replied to the point that ‘some people believe that they saw the Lock Ness monster so it means that the monster exists’. \*\*Lekatt \*\*responded: “I don’t know since it was not my experience.” Then why demand from others that we should seek even more iffy experiences? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/256 "2013-10-12T19:17:03Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I agree 100% with this. > > Early \*\*lekatt \*\*replied to the point that ‘some people believe that they saw the Lock Ness monster so it means that the monster exists’. \*\*Lekatt \*\*responded: “I don’t know since it was not my experience.” Then why demand from others that we should seek even more iffy experiences? I don’t seek all my experiences, sometimes they just hit you out of the blue like a heart attack. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/257 "2013-10-12T19:19:59Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I don’t seek all my experiences, sometimes they just hit you out of the blue like a heart attack. As I said, iffy experiences are not good enough to validate a point of view, nor it validates the “evidence” that one believes he/she has. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/258 "2013-10-12T21:42:59Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As I said, iffy experiences are not good enough to validate a point of view, nor it validates the “evidence” that one believes he/she has. It certainly does for the one who has the experience. Don’t really care what others who didn’t have the experience think about it. No way they could know anything. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/259 "2013-10-12T21:49:17Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > It certainly does for the one who has the experience. Don’t really care what others who didn’t have the experience think about it. No way they could know anything. Then why do you continue to share them as ‘truth’ ? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/260 "2013-10-12T22:29:41Z")
If he was serious about teaching the truth – and if truth can only come from dramatic, catastrophic, or violent experiences – he ought to be out there causing traffic accidents, shooting at people, kidnapping people, and in other ways allowing them to accumulate wisdom which can be obtained in no other way. Saying, You should believe me, I know what I’m saying, and then going on to say No explanation can ever be convincing, you must experience it yourself, seems like a glaringly obvious contradiction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270.md?page=14)