# the concept of faith **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 27, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270 "2013-08-27T02:07:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/281 "2013-10-14T11:46:47Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Expected reply. The fact that you never asked one serious question is evidence. Have you ever taken time to look back over how these conversations go with you and other posters and wondered why your ideas are generally not taken very seriously? I know it’s tempting to dismiss the critics out of hand and draw on that martyr complex which compells you to believe that since everyone is against you then you must be right. But what if you’re not? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/282 "2013-10-14T13:23:36Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Have you ever taken time to look back over how these conversations go with you and other posters and wondered why your ideas are generally not taken very seriously? I know it’s tempting to dismiss the critics out of hand and draw on that martyr complex which compells you to believe that since everyone is against you then you must be right. But what if you’re not? I believe we can move on back to the concept of faith now. The conversations go the way they do because I am taken seriously. There is solid scientific research to back me up. But just forget it. Faith is universal and believed in by everyone. It is a necessity of life and does not necessarily point to religion. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/283 "2013-10-14T14:09:08Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Faith is universal and believed in by everyone. It is a necessity of life and does not necessarily point to religion. Do you have any evidence for this besides your personal belief? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/284 "2013-10-14T14:49:30Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I believe we can move on back to the concept of faith now. The conversations go the way they do because I am taken seriously. There is solid scientific research to back me up. But just forget it. > > Faith is universal and believed in by everyone. It is a necessity of life and does not necessarily point to religion. We are talking about faith. When did we stop? There is plenty of evidence to suggest that people of various walks of life exhibit the behaviour of faith. That is not what’s being debated. Who made the claim that faith is not an observable behaviour? Most here are aware that faith does not necessarily imply religion, though generally it does include certain rituals and texts that are common to established religious practices which are by no means “universal”. So while we’re on the subject of universality - since not all religious practices follow the same doctrine and many follow contradicting doctrines, do you believe that faith espoused by those doctrines is universal? Are some faiths wrong? How do you determine if a faith is wrong? Do you believe your way of practicing faith correct? If so, why and how do you know this to be so? ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/285 "2013-10-14T15:15:07Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The conversations go the way they do because I am taken seriously. That is indeed where most conversations start to go wrong. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/286 "2013-10-14T15:49:41Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > That is indeed where most conversations start to go wrong. You make a good point. I will consider that going forward. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/287 "2013-10-14T21:59:32Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > . . . The conversations go the way they do because I am taken seriously. There is solid scientific research to back me up. . . . Sorry, but no. No one takes you seriously, and you have never supplied jack in the way of solid scientific evidence. You saw God face to face. That was enough to convince you. But that experience is personal, solitary, individual, and of no value to anyone else. > [@](#): > > Faith is universal and believed in by everyone. It is a necessity of life and does not necessarily point to religion. Faith, as such, is pretty universal. Specific articles of faith are not universal, but are widely distributed and differ hugely among the people of the world. There are as many different details of faith as there are religions and their sects. You are the proud possessor of one specific kind of faith. Nice for you, but it absolutely contradicts the faith held by a couple of billion other people. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/288 "2013-10-14T23:48:29Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Sorry, but no. No one takes you seriously, and you have never supplied jack in the way of solid scientific evidence. You saw God face to face. That was enough to convince you. But that experience is personal, solitary, individual, and of no value to anyone else. > > Faith, as such, is pretty universal. Specific articles of faith are not universal, but are widely distributed and differ hugely among the people of the world. There are as many different details of faith as there are religions and their sects. You are the proud possessor of one specific kind of faith. Nice for you, but it absolutely contradicts the faith held by a couple of billion other people. You can’t keep anything straight. I was in God’s presence but I did not see His face. I have shown the link to the scientific evidence more than once but nobody ever read it. I know because no serious questions were ever asked. While it was I that had the experience others can learn from it and study the subject if they wish. There are several universities and Doctors that are doing just that. Then you tell me about my experience as if you knew anything. It would really be easier to study the field so you would know what you are talking about. I hold sessions on how to think logically and rationally because few people know what that really is along with the search for truth. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/289 "2013-10-16T12:15:11Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > That is only an illusion. Faith is what you have when you run for help that you will get there in time. Faith is part of everyday life for everyone. There are mimes Faith doesn’t help. Truth always is there, Proven or not. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/290 "2013-10-16T12:28:11Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > There are mimes Faith doesn’t help. Truth always is there, Proven or not. Too late to edit the word Mimes should be times. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/291 "2013-10-16T13:04:52Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Too late to edit the word Mimes should be times. No-You had it right the first time. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/292 "2013-10-16T15:46:08Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > There are mimes Faith doesn’t help. Truth always is there, Proven or not. Yes, and there are times truth doesn’t help either, You get convicted anyway. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/293 "2013-10-17T12:00:15Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Yes, and there are times truth doesn’t help either, You get convicted anyway. Wrong truth is always right. One may not like the truth but it I always truth, If exaggerated or watered down it is only partly true; , truth always stands. If one does a crime and tells the truth then he/she gets what is their due. and it helps the person (if they are wise enough to see it) and can teach them not to do wrong again. If one cuts off its ear in defiance then it is their problem, not truths. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/294 "2013-10-17T12:44:15Z")
> [@jsutter](#): > > :smack: > > God IS beyond belief but not beyond experience. Trust me. 😉 > > Aloha In other words, then God doesn’t exist except as a word humans like to call an unknown word? I know someone who believed she saw the wafer(she called the host) grow into light so beautiful she had to look away, then realized later that no one else had seen it and realized it was just an illusion created by her own mind. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/295 "2013-10-17T15:16:11Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > In other words, then God doesn’t exist except as a word humans like to call an unknown word? > > I know someone who believed she saw the wafer(she called the host) grow into light so beautiful she had to look away, then realized later that no one else had seen it and realized it was just an illusion created by her own mind. Your friend didn’t necessarily see an illusion, what she saw happens. Illusions are really very rare usually seen by those on drugs, or drunk, and something physical wrong with them. A healthy person can see the light in meditation, when they are very relaxed or feel loved. They are not illusions. The light is real. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/296 "2013-10-17T21:13:34Z")
A strange kind of light that cameras can’t see. You need a new word for it: “light” isn’t accurate. Light can be recorded by cameras. Light is a very well-understood physical phenomenon. Magical glowy shit is not. “Pictures, or it didn’t happen.” ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/297 "2013-10-17T21:20:31Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Your friend didn’t necessarily see an illusion, what she saw happens. Illusions are really very rare usually seen by those on drugs, or drunk, and something physical wrong with them. A healthy person can see the light in meditation, when they are very relaxed or feel loved. They are not illusions. The light is real. The irony - it burns. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/298 "2013-10-17T21:24:35Z")
> [@simster](#): > > The irony - it burns. Does it glow, too? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/299 "2013-10-17T22:06:09Z")
What does a guy have to do in order to be taken seriously around here? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/300 "2013-10-18T00:45:26Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > A strange kind of light that cameras can’t see. > > You need a new word for it: “light” isn’t accurate. Light can be recorded by cameras. Light is a very well-understood physical phenomenon. Magical glowy shit is not. > > “Pictures, or it didn’t happen.” Well it can be pictured. The light is very bright but does not hurt the eyes to look at it. Actually it can be caught on pictures when it can’t be seen by physical eyes. I once asked a spirit friend of mine to stand in front of my couch so I could take a picture of him. At that time I had a Polaroid camera, it was years ago. When I took the picture it came out all white, completely white. I thought the camera had malfunction so I did it again with the same result. Then I asked him to step aside and I tried again and got a picture of the couch. Not to hard to figure out when I realized he was light. I frequently get balls of light in my pictures, but never got the whole picture light before. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270.md?page=16)