# the concept of faith **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 27, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270 "2013-08-27T02:07:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/101 "2013-09-09T00:43:20Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Taking a break from a difficult problem by taking a step back and doing something different, or even nothing at all is = “faith”? :dubious: > > I see neither logic nor verification for this claim you just made. I see a great big _assumption_ leading to a _conclusion_ you want to be true, but I do not see any kind of logic or reason for either. I know It’s a big claim, but I do feel faith is a emotional motivation, as opposed to a logical motivation. People have left comfortable careers to do things like pilgrimages which makes no logical sense, yet bettered their life. Also people frequently will know they need to get away from a problem to solve it - that knowing is emotional based, not logically based. If it is emotional based motivation I claim that is faith based. Also a aside that many have wanted to go into, why faith is intertwined with religion. Religions faith is a subset of faith. It is a emotional based drive, not a logically based drive. The emotions are hope (of the future promised), or fear (of the punishment). Both hope and fear are emotions. Beyond this one can logically say it is better to be religious (hence better your chances when God judges you, better chance for reward), so that can appeal to the logical side as well, but in this case religious faith come first, the logical side followed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/102 "2013-09-09T01:17:26Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > \*\* > Czarcasm\*\* in his famous post # 53 of this thread, men of logic just follow men of faith and record their progress. I already told you that your interpretation was way off the mark, and you’ve already admitted to twisting my words. I ask you not to do this again. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/103 "2013-09-09T02:45:18Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Twisting things around is your specialty, now enjoy it when it has returned to you 🙂 Attacking the poster, rather than the post is not appropriate to this forum. > [@kanicbird](#): > > \*\* > Czarcasm\*\* in his famous post # 53 of this thread, men of logic just follow men of faith and record their progress. Deliberately twisting another poster’s comments, admitting that you have twisted them, and then repeating the claim after admitting that you have twisted his words is a good indication that one is trolling. Knock it off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/104 "2013-09-09T04:24:40Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > \*\* > Czarcasm\*\* in his famous post # 53 of this thread, men of logic just follow men of faith and record their progress. Seems like Czarcasm is denying that what he meant. What do you think? Are men of logic unable to be adventurous? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/105 "2013-09-09T10:22:39Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I know It’s a big claim, but I do feel faith is a emotional motivation, as opposed to a logical motivation. People have left comfortable careers to do things like pilgrimages which makes no logical sense, yet bettered their life. Also people frequently will know they need to get away from a problem to solve it - that knowing is emotional based, not logically based. If it is emotional based motivation I claim that is faith based. I agree. Faith is emotion based. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/106 "2013-09-09T21:21:41Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Seems like Czarcasm is denying that what he meant. What do you think? Are men of logic unable to be adventurous? Are men of Logic unable to be adventurous? I would certainly say less adventurous, when they are adventurous they may be acting more as men of faith i.e. emotionally motivated then men of logic. It may very well be beneficial and logical for a man of logic to propose something and get a man of faith to actually try it out, such as the NASA engineers and the astronauts. There is a logical reason not to be adventurous - that being self preservation. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/107 "2013-09-09T21:38:49Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Attacking the poster, rather than the post is not appropriate to this forum. > > Deliberately twisting another poster’s comments, admitting that you have twisted them, and then repeating the claim after admitting that you have twisted his words is a good indication that one is trolling. > > Knock it off. > > [/Moderating] I apologize, I am sorry Czarcasm, I did go to far. For quite some time you have linked/reposted a post I have made in the past (the one regarding the curative properties of mother’s chicken soup). You have re-posted that and linked to it ad nauseam for perhaps years, and I did take it as a personal attack, as I believe you have stated it was by stating that you are letting the poster know my mindset, and I lost it here in this post over that, all that build up from all the time you reposted that link. It did hurt as I did take it as a personal attack. I do ask respectively that you also stop reposting that, not that I deny it, and we can have another open discussing of it, but I do see it as a personal attack and one that has been hurtful. Peace Kanicbird. ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/108 "2013-09-09T21:48:21Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Well, what about people who affirm…falsely? Like, a use car salesman who affirms, loud as anything, that this little baby here runs like a top…but he knows full well that it actually runs like a hobbled camel, he’s just lying has ass off to make a sale. > > It is a most emphatic affirmation…but he isn’t likely to come to believe it. Any affirmation to oneself is necessarily sincere. To affirm to another offers other possibilities. > [@kanicbird](#): > > … > > There is a logical reason not to be adventurous - that being self preservation. How sad. The adventurous find themselves in their adventures. The rest search forever in their sleep. Aloha ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/109 "2013-09-09T21:56:54Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I agree. Faith is emotion based. I want to go more then faith is emotionally based, but to define the term ‘emotional motivator’, which I believe is what faith really is, as a beneficial trait of humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/110 "2013-09-09T22:02:37Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I want to go more then faith is emotionally based, but to define the term ‘emotional motivator’, which I believe is what faith really is, as a beneficial trait of humanity. No-I don’t think redefining “faith” is really needed, since there is no consensus as to whether or not faith is a prime motivator at all. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/111 "2013-09-09T22:03:44Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I apologize, I am sorry Czarcasm, I did go to far. For quite some time you have linked/reposted a post I have made in the past (the one regarding the curative properties of mother’s chicken soup). You have re-posted that and linked to it ad nauseam for perhaps years, and I did take it as a personal attack, as I believe you have stated it was by stating that you are letting the poster know my mindset, and I lost it here in this post over that, all that build up from all the time you reposted that link. It did hurt as I did take it as a personal attack. I do ask respectively that you also stop reposting that, not that I deny it, and we can have another open discussing of it, but I do see it as a personal attack and one that has been hurtful. > > Peace > Kanicbird. Ummmm…what? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/112 "2013-09-09T22:08:29Z")
> [@jsutter](#): > > Any affirmation to oneself is necessarily sincere. . . . Well, yes and no… The human mind has a remarkable capacity for self-deception. I suppose that the severely depressed person, who affirms, daily, “I’m no good” is sincere, in a kind of way. But it isn’t true, and, moreover, the person, if given even the most rudimentary therapy, knows it isn’t true. His mind insists on affirming it even so. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/113 "2013-09-09T22:08:43Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > There is a logical reason not to be adventurous - that being self preservation. There are very logical reasons to be adventurous-the need to expand, the need to solve problems, the need to increase profit etc. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/114 "2013-09-09T23:55:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No-I don’t think redefining “faith” is really needed, since there is no consensus as to whether or not faith is a prime motivator at all. WAIT, are you claiming that faith has not been a prime motivator? What do you consider all the religious wars and attacks? 9-11 was Logic based 😕 ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/115 "2013-09-09T23:57:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There are very logical reasons to be adventurous-the need to expand, the need to solve problems, the need to increase profit etc. There are logical reasons to do that, but logical reasons to get someone else to actually do it for the man of logic. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/116 "2013-09-10T00:14:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Ummmm…what? I really don’t have time to research this right now, but I admit based on your reply I may have mistaken you for another poster. I have been away from here for about 5 months on my own pilgrimage (faith based 🙂 ) thru hike of the Appalachian Trail. It is much like being in a different world, and the ‘off trail’ world (as it is referred to on the trail) becomes a distant memory. There is a adjustment period that most thru hikers go through. There is/was a poster here that would taunt me with one of my previous replies. Not that I deny what I said, but it is certainly abnormal and unwelcome to have someone going around following you stating what you said in response to a former topic at every post. It was very annoying and in that it was abnormal, I do feel it was a personal attack by that poster. I further apologize as from your reply I did mistake you from this other poster. Also since this is a faith based thread, which I do wish to define as a emotional driving force of humanity, want to point out the effect this other poster has had on me, and how I did lash out at you here (transference), and I do believe in extreme cases if allowed to go further is the answer as to why many of things like Columbine happen, which i do also believe is a emotional based motivator by someone oppressed. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/117 "2013-09-10T00:21:01Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Are men of Logic unable to be adventurous? I would certainly say less adventurous… Cite? > [@](#): > > There is a logical reason not to be adventurous - that being self preservation. There are faithful reasons not to be adventurous - that being “God will provide.” ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/118 "2013-09-10T00:29:37Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > There are logical reasons to do that, but logical reasons to get someone else to actually do it for the man of logic. One might logically conclude they can’t afford to get someone else to do the adventurous stuff. One might also logically conclude that adventurous activities are interesting and fun. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/119 "2013-09-10T00:32:40Z")
With our examples, **kanicbird** , you aren’t making a very good case for faith no matter _how_ you define it. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270/120 "2013-09-10T00:35:08Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Also since this is a faith based thread, which I do wish to define as a emotional driving force of humanity… So you want to make up your own positive sounding definition for faith so you can argue that it it’s a positive influence? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-concept-of-faith/667270.md?page=7)