It’s the grammar of linguistics originally used to navigate a real physical geography and then one held as it were imagined in the mind. That’s how you would explain the difference between “Left” and “Right”. No need to refer to specific objects or visual aids - that would be done instinctively or automatically with the initial use of the human body plan as a need to reference and describe a physical landscape. It is innate in us and nature.
So, by “the difference between”, I take it you want to explanation to include which is which, correct?
IIRC, Curly of the 3 Stooges says “The one on your right is the right, and the one that’s left is left, right?”
I’m being mean. But can you provide an example of how you would do this? We are at this moment conversing. Can you describe to me right and left in a manner I can be sure not to get wrong?
The innate mathematics of nature suggests it isn’t possible.
Left and Right is a real bugger. Up and Down is easy. Forward and Back too. Left and right? No intuitive difference between left and right. Perhaps they don’t exist? It is common enough for passengers when directing me to say things like “Left. No, the other left”.
About 90% of the sapient beings on this planet are right-handed and they find it hard to determine the right hand direction? Maybe we should re-define sapience.
This right-handed person can determine it just fine, thanks. The assignment was to define it for others, and didn’t say we can assume they’re right-handed.
We don’t have to “assume” right-handedness - it is a fact. People learn the concept of right and left when they’re really young, from their mothers usually - when they “teach” it mothers don’t have to define anything actually because every baby knows they have a hand or a foot of choice when they play or perform any activities. A mother will simply confirm her child that the limb they find right to use is the right one.
To be sure, nature does allow a precise description of left vs. right, as alluded to at in various places through the thread. It’s just that it requires rather sophisticated measurements.
No. I mean I see it as directional, movement to and away from. If you associate one of those movements with say hand dominance that would at least reinforce a connection about which is Right and Left, Incorrect or Correct. Perhaps culturally which direction is assigned to the word Right or Left. It would not be without mistakes. So your test still stands.
Can you explain up or down without referring to gravity? I think that would be excluded by the OP.
And how would you explain forward and back without phrases like “the things in your field of vision”, which would also be excluded?
I should qualify my trivial observation: In the real world, up and down, forward and back are trivial, easily observed using gravity and which way one is looking. I’ve not noticed my acquaintances confusing those four concepts. Left and right, often misslabled.
I remember getting left and right confused early on in grade school. What eventually worked for me was remembering that I put my right hand on my heart during the Pledge of Allegiance each morning.
Obviously that wouldn’t work for the situation of an alien not on Earth, as presented both by my high school physics teacher and Martin Gardner (and my teacher probably got the idea from Gardner’s book, as the timing is right).
or left…
To lay out the problem clearly: Suppose that we’ve taken up e-mail correspondence with an alien species. Through much difficult labor, we’ve managed to work out most of each others’ languages. We’ve even attached pictures. So the aliens know, for instance, that our bodies are close to symmetrical, and that we have two arms ending in hands, one on each side of the body. We send the aliens a message saying “Most humans are stronger and more agile with one hand than the other. For about 90% of us, the right hand is the stronger and more agile one.”. And the aliens send a message back saying “It’s similar with us. For most of us, one tentacle is stronger than the other, and for 85% of us, the strong tentacle is the one on the bleerm side”.
Given all the rest of the language, it’s easy to determine that the aliens use “bleerm” and “odol” the same way we use “right” and “left”. But does “bleerm” mean “right”, or “left”? If we were ever to actually meet face-to-face, would we discover that the aliens are right-tentacled or left-tentacled?
Alien communication:
"When looking at a representative 2-D image of your entire home planet, viewed perpendicular to your field of view with the image’s polar axis aligned so that one pole is pointed towards the core of your planet (down) and one pole is pointed away (up), do you have a preferred polar orientation to view this 2-D image amongst the general population of your planet ?
If so, we shall call the “up” direction “North”, and the “down” direction “South”, and please ensure that all future 2-D image data that you send us of your planet is transmitted line by line, North(first)-to-South(last).
If not, pick a pole at random. We shall call that pole “North”, and the opposite pole “South”, and we would like to standardize this format so that “North” is always pointed “up” when looking at a 2-D image of your world. Please ensure that all future 2-D image data that you send us of your planet is again transmitted line by line, North-to-South. "
This would at least ensure that when the aliens and Earth are both looking at the subsequent 2-D image data, it would be oriented in the same way, North to South. East and West are completely different, obviously.
Am I allowed to assume that you are reading text on a screen?
From left to right?
~Max
Do mathematical formulas (specifically, inequalities) count as specific objects or visual aids? Left and right can be defined as less than and greater than, respectively.
~Max
I think the mathematical concepts of “less than” or “greater than” are translated fine. But to transmit a symbol “<” correctly requires knowledge if the aliens read from (or their image transcription protocol reads) right-to-left or from left-to-right. Otherwise its a 50% probability whether it comes out as “<” or “>”.
I think MAD Magazine put it: How to tell Port from Starboard.
Port is on the left. So the other side is the one that’s left. What side is that? Starboard is left.
It’s funny - I like it; unfortunately, it only works in English.
On the other hand,
telling someone that the right hand is the right hand to use can be expressed in other languages too.