# The Conflict between Conservative "Facts" and Reality **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 8, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conflict-between-conservative-facts-and-reality/640300 "2012-11-08T00:04:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conflict-between-conservative-facts-and-reality/640300/61 "2012-11-08T19:44:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’m not sure if the distinction between an “honest” error and an error born of ideological dumthink is worth the effort. I don’t even read Fatheringay’s posts anymore after he basically said he’s not even interested in me. ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conflict-between-conservative-facts-and-reality/640300/62 "2012-11-08T19:45:52Z")
[QUOTE=drewtwo99] The republican party has betrayed people like me, and frankly, I hope they continue to do so until they learn their lesson. [/QUOTE] > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Oddly enough, I find it to be exactly the opposite. You hope they continue to betray you until _you_ learn your lesson? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conflict-between-conservative-facts-and-reality/640300/63 "2012-11-08T19:51:17Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’m not sure if the distinction between an “honest” error and an error born of ideological dumthink is worth the effort. So you disagree with Steve MB. Just to be clear. > [@drewtwo99](#): > > I don’t even read Fatheringay’s posts anymore after he basically said he’s not even interested in me. That’s a shame. And here I was about to offer you a discount on my newsletter. (For the first six issues, that is.) ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conflict-between-conservative-facts-and-reality/640300/64 "2012-11-08T20:52:21Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > For the sake of the country, I will have to. Otherwise, we might end up like California 😛 Where you from? My state is the 8th largest economy in the world (as of 2009). You’d likely be in sorry shape indeed if we weren’t helping to drag your sorry-assed state’s economy around…:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conflict-between-conservative-facts-and-reality/640300/65 "2012-11-08T21:29:26Z")
Apparently, this topic is resonating. I just saw [Andrew Sullivan’s Daily Beast article](http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/11/will-the-rights-fever-break-ctd-1.html?fb_action_ids=10151252350969761&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210151252350969761%22%3A454962597878236%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210151252350969761%22%3A%22og.likes%22%7D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D). At the end of the article, he quotes a Mark Levin article. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conflict-between-conservative-facts-and-reality/640300/66 "2012-11-08T21:48:39Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Just to put this on the record, Global Climate Change - the proper name - real and terrifying. It’s the biggest problem we have, in any reckoning and by any measure. > > No actions by any individual mean anything. It is a true tragedy of the commons. Only by concerted collective effort will anything positive occur. > > History will judge this election solely by the lack of attention both parties gave to the tsunami that is already visible. But it will save its harshest words for the deniers. Horsefeathers. If climate change weren’t a scam, Al Gore would be traveling from city to city on a recumbent bike. Or something. Basically it isn’t real because of Al Gore. \*\*Omg \*\*can probably explain the reasoning better than I. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conflict-between-conservative-facts-and-reality/640300/67 "2012-11-08T21:51:58Z")
I believe at this point it is traditional to point out that Al Gore is also fat. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conflict-between-conservative-facts-and-reality/640300/68 "2012-11-09T00:58:53Z")
> [@Dumbguy](#): > > You hope they continue to betray you until _you_ learn your lesson? No silly, he hopes they betray him until _they_ learn their lesson! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conflict-between-conservative-facts-and-reality/640300/69 "2012-11-09T01:52:20Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I posted before and during the fact that the polls were accurate. I pointed out errors people made in their statements about polling, too. > > In actual fact, the arguments that people made here against the accuracy of the polling reminds me of nothing so much as the threads we’ve had with people insisting that 0.9999~ was not equal to 1. Those posters were not merely wrong about the facts, they had to insist that standard components of math either did not exist or did not work… Reality continues to not care what ignorant people think. It did so in this election cycle, and will do so in every election cycle in the future. You can always find silly or desperate apologists for any claim, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t also reasonable arguments in favor. I wasn’t particularly surprised that Obama won. But in light of Gallup’s discrepancy in '08, I considered it well within the realm of possibility that a similar error could occur this time. Perhaps Gallup is no longer a reputable organization; I didn’t get that particular memo. The distinction between reality and people’s perceptions of it is meaningless in the context of a political discussion or any other kind of discussion. Obviously, any serious person is trying to align his thoughts with reality. But we can only _discuss_ our perceptions of reality, not reality itself. Appealing to objective reality, as so many enjoy doing here, just amounts to “Because, that’s why!” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conflict-between-conservative-facts-and-reality/640300/70 "2012-11-09T02:18:49Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > My theory is that the GOP has become an organization that really is not about representing the population so much as pushing something on them. What they want is perhaps good for GOP insiders, but probably not for you, and so they can’t just baldly describe their plans. They have to disguise them. Pushing false premises gives them more opportunities to present their ideas as what is best for the country than a scrutinized reality will. I think that is what they were. But then the people who had been lied to and believed it climbed up the party hierarchy and have been replacing more and more of the cynical-but-realistic manipulators with delusional True Believers. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conflict-between-conservative-facts-and-reality/640300/71 "2012-11-09T16:36:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I think that is what they were. But then the people who had been lied to and believed it climbed up the party hierarchy and have been replacing more and more of the cynical-but-realistic manipulators with delusional True Believers. Exactly, 30 years of nonsense misinformation. And now, people who grew up with it filling their ears are taking the reins. Controlling the hooples has lead to the hooples being in control. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conflict-between-conservative-facts-and-reality/640300/72 "2012-11-09T17:35:23Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > For the sake of the country, I will have to. Otherwise, we might end up like California 😛 You guys should primary for RINO’s that are running for reelection in the senate in 2014. People are ready to elect REAL conservatives. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conflict-between-conservative-facts-and-reality/640300/73 "2012-11-09T17:38:47Z")
Here’s [Mark Blumenthal’s](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-blumenthal/unskewed-polls_b_1924293.html?utm_hp_ref=@pollster) take on the “skewed polls” phenomenon: > [@](#): > > Eight years ago this week, I launched a new blog on political polling with a post on party identification. At the time, many Democrats were up in arms over survey samples that seemed too Republican and were contending that if pollsters would adjust for the “apparent overrepresentation” of Republicans in their samples, Sen. John Kerry would be running a closer race against President George W. Bush. > > Two presidential elections later, the argument over the partisan makeup of poll samples continues, only this time the roles are reversed. Now it’s Republicans and conservative pundits railing against allegedly “skewed polls.” ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conflict-between-conservative-facts-and-reality/640300/74 "2012-11-10T06:05:19Z")
Former Bush speech writer and Conservative political pundit David Frum had a few choice words for the followers and activists of the Republican Party. **Frum:** “The real locus of the problem is the Republican activist base and the Republican donor base. They went \*apocalyptic \*over the past four years. And that was \*exploited \*in the conservative world. … **Republicans have been fleeced and exploited and lied to by a Conservative Entertainment Complex.** … I’ll say it again … the conservative followership has been fleeced, exploited and lied to by the Conservative Entertainment Complex. … Because the followers, the donors, and the activists are so \*mistaken \*about the nature of the problems the country faces, I mean, just a simple question, and I went to tea party rallies and I would ask this question: ‘Have taxes gone up or down in the past four years?’ They could not answer that question correctly. … ‘Do we spend a trillion dollars on Welfare? Is that True or False?’ It is _false_. But it is almost universally believed. …” **Joe Scarborough got in on the action and reiterated:** “Conservatives have been lied to. They’ve been lied to by people who’ve engaged in niche marketing and made tens of millions of dollars engaging in the niche marketing, and I’m a capitalist, G-d bless 'em, they can do whatever they wanna do, but that’s not an electoral strategy, that’s a _business strategy_ for _them_.” Watch the video at the link: [FRUM: Republicans Have Been Fleeced And Lied To By The Conservative Entertainment Complex](http://www.businessinsider.com/frum-republicans-have-been-lied-to-2012-11) ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conflict-between-conservative-facts-and-reality/640300/75 "2012-11-16T23:34:49Z")
Fox News and the Republican establishment and so forth exists for the sole purpose of removing Sheldon Adelson’s money from him. It’s a lot of money, and they do very well. He’s kind of a sleazy casino owner, so I have no specific problem watching him gamble away his money on losing bets. Problem is when they try to convince folks in rural areas that they have some kind of solution for the country, when they don’t. These sorts of folks are experts in believing in things that are severely lacking in evidence, so they’re the perfect target audience for business criminals. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conflict-between-conservative-facts-and-reality/640300.md?page=3)