# The Conservative Bible, or I'm Square Athwart Poe's Law Here **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 5, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742 "2009-10-05T22:44:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/41 "2009-10-06T13:57:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So you can. > > “Oh, that was just a political gesture! In private, He stoned **many** women taken in adultery!” > > – _Sister Mary Ignatius Explains It All For You_ Never seen the play- THAT is a great line! ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/42 "2009-10-06T14:14:06Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Because the Conservative tendency, echoing its name, is to _conserve_ the good things of the past. And one of the stroingly-held tenets has been that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. That’s not an exclusively Protestant Fundamentalist view, it’s held by Conservative Roman Catholics and other groups as well. These are folks who don’t believe you can “pick and choose” the parts of the Bible you want (although they can interpret all over the place). To have anyone in that bunch sugest removing a part of the New Testament – even one that might be interpreted as against their agenda – is absolutely outrageous, in my experience. This is something wholly new. remember – you can always re-interpret. Weellll… It’s unusual, but I wouldn’t call this particular case outrageous. They’re not at all the first to suggest that the story in question (the one about the adulteress about to be stoned–“he who is without sin” and all that…) was inserted later. The story skips around in different very early copies of the books of the NT–sometimes even appearing in different books altogether. (IIRC it’s usually found in Luke, but sometimes is found at John. And sometimes it’s within the book, sometimes tacked on at the end.) Conservatives would usually say leave it in, I agree. But I don’t think its _outrageous_ for a conservative to say otherwise. Belief in Inerrancy of the original documents doesn’t equate to or imply belief in Inerrancy of any modern edition. (Not saying Inerrancy is a sensible doctrine, just saying what it doesn’t imply.) ETA: It’s a little ridiculous, though, to say this is a particularly “liberal” passage while not characterizing a lot of other NT passages about withholding judgment as “liberal” as well. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/43 "2009-10-06T14:41:47Z")
> [@](#): > > They’re not at all the first to suggest that the story in question (the one about the adulteress about to be stoned–“he who is without sin” and all that…) was inserted later. Read my earlier post. This is exactly what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/44 "2009-10-06T14:43:06Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Read my earlier post. This is exactly what I said. No it’s not. I said it’s usually found in Luke, you said it’s usually found in John. You were right of course. :p;) ETA: Weird, I can’t find your earlier post! I know I read it a few minutes ago…! ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/45 "2009-10-06T14:51:07Z")
> [@](#): > > o it’s not. I said it’s usually found in Luke, you said it’s usually found in John. I don’t say a thing about where it’s located. And, yeah, I know it’s part of the text of Luke (and not invariably found _there_). But I was commenting on what people wrote earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/46 "2009-10-06T15:06:51Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I don’t say a thing about where it’s located. And, yeah, I know it’s part of the text of Luke (and not invariably found _there_). But I was commenting on what people wrote earlier. Oh, for some reason I read one of **Polycarp** ’s posts thinking it was your post. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/47 "2009-10-06T16:00:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Everybody must get stones!” > > - St. Robert of Hibbing I want you to go to your room and think about what you’ve done. We’ll have a little talk later. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/48 "2009-10-06T16:01:35Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Never seen the play- THAT is a great line! You can read the play [here.](http://www.drama21c.net/writers/cdurang/sistermary.htm) ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/49 "2009-10-06T19:20:06Z")
I wonder how Conservipedia is going to “edit” this: > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Jesus** , > _Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God._ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/50 "2009-10-06T19:38:37Z")
Luke 16: 19-31: > [@](#): > > 19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. > 22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ > > 25"But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ > > 27"He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ > > 29"Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ > > 30" ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ > > 31"He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ " Acts 2: 42-45: > [@](#): > > 42They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. Acts 4: 32-37: > [@](#): > > 32All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. 33With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. 34There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need. > 36Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means Son of Encouragement), 37sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles’ feet. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/51 "2009-10-06T19:48:19Z")
> [@5\_time\_champ](#): > > I wonder how Conservipedia is going to “edit” this: > > Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Too easy! [QUOTE=Jesus] Again I tell you, it is easier for a … rich man to enter the kingdom of God. [/QUOTE] Just claim the camel/eye of needle part was needless Greek metaphor that is lost in translation. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/52 "2009-10-06T19:51:09Z")
I don’t think it’s a hoax site, but I don’t think it’s got a lot to do with conservatives in the mainstream sense. Why can’t it be what it appears to be? - the brainchild of a lone nutjob who happens to have his own personal definition of ‘conservative’ - that happens to resemble an insane caricature of the views of some genuine conservatives? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/53 "2009-10-06T19:53:26Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Too easy! > > Just claim the camel/eye of needle part was needless Greek metaphor that is lost in translation. 🙂 Or better . . . I read in _Asimov’s Guide to the Bible_ that the medieval Church preached there was a gate into Jerusalem called “the Needle,” which was too low for a fully-laden camel, but you could get the camel through it if you unloaded some of the cargo. IOW, a rich man can get into Heaven if he gives a substantial share of his wealth to the Church. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/54 "2009-10-06T20:03:38Z")
Dubious at best: See Snopes, below. [http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get\_topic;f=33;t=001077;p=1](http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=33;t=001077;p=1) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/55 "2009-10-06T20:20:25Z")
> [@5\_time\_champ](#): > > [QUOTE=Jesus] > Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. I wonder how Conservipedia is going to “edit” this: [/QUOTE] "_Therefore, thou shalt construct large needles, and grind thine camels before passing them though."_ See? It’s not about rich people; it’s about the proper method of camel disposal. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/56 "2009-10-06T20:27:31Z")
There is tongue-in-cheek article at Salon about it… > **[Salon fixes the Bible's liberal bias](https://www.salon.com/2009/10/06/conservative_bible/)** > > A right-wing Web site is working on a new conservative version of the Bible; we offer some suggestions Not that settles anything even if it weren’t satirical they wouldn’t be the first media outlet to fall for the perils of Poe’s Law. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/57 "2009-10-06T20:50:21Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I don’t think it’s a hoax site, but I don’t think it’s got a lot to do with conservatives in the mainstream sense. > > Why can’t it be what it appears to be? - the brainchild of a lone nutjob who happens to have his own personal definition of ‘conservative’ - that happens to resemble an insane caricature of the views of some genuine conservatives? [Conservapedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Schlafly) is the creation of (and perforce closely watched and edited by, after all that prankery ;)) Andy Schlafly, son of [Phyllis.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllis_Schlafly) If he’s not in the mainstream of movement conservatism, who is? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Awesome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Captain\_Awesome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Awesome)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/58 "2009-10-06T20:51:44Z")
> [@5\_time\_champ](#): > > I wonder how Conservipedia is going to “edit” this: > > > [@](#): > > > > Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Conservatives have been thinking outside the box on this one possibly as far back as the 9th century. The ‘eye of a needle’ was suggested as a somewhat small gate in Jerusalem, hence an unencumbered and suitably grovelling camel could make it through, problem solved! Alas this ideal solution is skewered by the inconvenient truth that absolutely no evidence or reference exists to such a structure. Still we mustn’t allow mere facts to cloud religio-political thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/59 "2009-10-06T21:46:21Z")
Another interpretation hinges on the fact that the original word for “camel” there is very similar to the word for “rope”. Sure, it’d be tough to thread a rope through a needle, but you could at least picture it happening. The problem there is that it’d be very hard for a mistranslation to end up going that way rather than the other. If it were originally “rope”, you’d expect a translator or transcriber to go “Wait, what? A camel?”, and double-check the original. But if it were originally “camel”, it’s not too hard to picture a transcriber thinking "No, that can’t be right, they must have meant “rope”. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742/60 "2009-10-06T21:51:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Conservapedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Schlafly) is the creation of (and perforce closely watched and edited by, after all that prankery ;)) Andy Schlafly, son of [Phyllis.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllis_Schlafly) If he’s not in the mainstream of movement conservatism, who is? I don’t know anything about either of these characters, but am I not right in thinking that American political conservatives in general do not wish conservapedia to be seen as accurately representing them? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conservative-bible-or-im-square-athwart-poes-law-here/512742.md?page=4)