# The Conspiracy to Destroy ACORN **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 29, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991 "2009-09-29T15:55:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991/61 "2009-10-01T03:53:44Z")
Don’t much like his books, either, I mean, he’s no Dean Koontz, that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991/62 "2009-10-01T04:22:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > As I am already a lesbian trapped in the body of a man, and already on the conservative wing of the extreme left, these issues have no weight. YMMV) Ok, I watched the video. Right-wingers have no taste in their politicking. Their disruptions of the democratic process sometimes seem a little… fascistic. But I don’t understand the lesbian bit. Maddow seems passably lesbo enough. But you’re either turned on by lesbos; are into laundry, knitting and auto repair but pass as straight; or you dress up like a girl and then go cruising for chicks? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991/63 "2009-10-01T04:25:09Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Punishment has a specific legal definition - and it does not include Congress deciding where and how to spend money. Not sure I follow here, **Moto**. Are you saying that this isn’t an effort to punish and/or injure ACORN? When the guys themselves are bragging about fucking over ACORN? Are you employing some hyper-technical Brickersonian parsing, some exquisitely precise definition? I mean, technically a baseball bat is sporting equipment, but when somebody starts smacking you around with one, its a weapon. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991/64 "2009-10-01T05:10:39Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > …But you’re either turned on by lesbos; are into laundry, knitting and auto repair but pass as straight; or you dress up like a girl and then go cruising for chicks? 😕 You know, oddly enough, the last person to express any interest in my fantasies wanted $2.99 a minute to listen (even though it seems to me she would be getting all of the advantage…) Is it usual for super-models to have such gruff, gravelly voices? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991/65 "2009-10-01T05:32:46Z")
Luci, all I can gather is umbrage. I like having you at my back. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991/66 "2009-10-01T05:35:43Z")
(explanation) I’m sober and well-medicated. Annoyance is all I can expect from me. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991/67 "2009-10-01T06:43:42Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Luci, all I can gather is umbrage. I like having you at my back. For reasons of morale, its probably best if you’re in front of me, that way you can’t see me cringe. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991/68 "2009-10-01T14:32:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You know, oddly enough, the last person to express any interest in my fantasies wanted $2.99 a minute to listen (even though it seems to me she would be getting all of the advantage…) Is it usual for super-models to have such gruff, gravelly voices? Good work if you can get it. I guess there’s no Being John Malkovich angle to the conspiracy then? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991/69 "2009-10-01T15:29:41Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Not sure I follow here, **Moto**. Are you saying that this isn’t an effort to punish and/or injure ACORN? When the guys themselves are bragging about fucking over ACORN? Are you employing some hyper-technical Brickersonian parsing, some exquisitely precise definition? No - **Bricker** might parse things sometimes but some topics need parsing. You use “punish and/or injure” above as if the terms were interchangeable, which legally they don’t seem to be. Injury can be committed by anyone, but punishment refers only to a sentence imposed by a court. Therefore, these topics are covered by entirely separate sections of law - injury is generally considered synonymous with tort law in its myriad forms. Incidentally there probably isn’t a tort case here - the monies in question were granted through a government contract so contract law would instead apply. Punishment is defined as a sentence imposed by a court - again, this doesn’t apply here either as nobody has been tried. Now, I’m not a lawyer, but even this much is pretty clear to me. And waving your hands about definitions won’t change that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991/70 "2009-10-01T17:06:43Z")
So, is this just one of those remarkable coincidences, then? Were they planning for some time to introduce this marvelous piece of legislation, and the fact of its timing is mere circumstance? Even if Pubbie lawmakers a crowing about bringing down ACORN (see Rep. King, cited above)? Its not about ACORN at all, simply that the Republican Party has been seized with a fervent desire to de-fund fraudulent enterprises, and let the chips fall where they may? Is it my wording that discomfits you? Perhaps if I exchange “punish” and “injure” for “fuck over” and “stick it to”, you will be content? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991/71 "2009-10-01T17:17:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Is it my wording that discomfits you? Perhaps if I exchange “punish” and “injure” for “fuck over” and “stick it to”, you will be content? I’m not discomfited in the least - just a bit surprised that someone that uses precise language to joke around will insist on using general terms when discussing a legal matter, where these terms have a set meaning. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991/72 "2009-10-01T17:24:15Z")
I have any number of character flaws, and ought to be grateful to you for pointing them out. Another time, perhaps? After you’ve answered the question? And by “answer the question” I mean answer the question, not “post a semantic distraction to evade the actual point”. Is the intent of this legislation to hinder, defund, or otherwise weaken ACORN? Go ahead, shout it out, we all know, and you do too. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991/73 "2009-10-01T17:28:05Z")
It is to sever government ties with the organization at this time, which IMHO is neither a punishment nor an injury, merely a contractural dispute. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991/74 "2009-10-01T17:34:08Z")
Yes, **Moto** , I’m quite aware of the formality. I am talking about the _intent_ of that formality. Which is as plain as the nose on your face. You leave me to wonder if you attended college on a dodge-ball scholarship. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991/75 "2009-10-01T17:48:03Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Not sure I follow here, **Moto**. Are you saying that this isn’t an effort to punish and/or injure ACORN? When the guys themselves are bragging about fucking over ACORN? Are you employing some hyper-technical Brickersonian parsing, some exquisitely precise definition? > > I mean, technically a baseball bat is sporting equipment, but when somebody starts smacking you around with one, its a weapon. True. OTOH, [“Bill of Attainder”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder) has a specific **legal** definition and it does not encompass a “punishment” such as a bill to defund a former recipient of government funding or contracts. This is nasty and overreactive, but it ain’t unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991/76 "2009-10-01T17:58:10Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I am glad you are so sure, but they asked the lawyers to look into it because Barney Frank asked for a clarification. He saw the law as a Bill of Attainder and thought it was unconstitutional. He then asked them to obtain some legal advice. > [Free Voter Records & Election Results](http://pubrecord.org/politics/5259/nadler-acorn-amendment-flatly/comment-page-1/) The legislation is the Defund ACORN act. In case you think it was not specific. By defunding ACORN they are punishing the organization .They did not have a trial. That is against the constitution. The whole idea of not allowing a Bill of Attainder was to prevent the legislature from punishing a person, organization or corporation without a trial determining innocence or guilt first. I have been reading a bit about it. It seems you most of you righties are tap dancing around and declaring it constitutional. But there are at least as many that say it is one. I still think it is one. I’ll offer you a bet, then: if the law is passed, and challenged, it will be upheld as constitutional. $200. What do you say? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991/77 "2009-10-01T18:07:09Z")
Don’t much care about that, the whole “attainder” thing was never my issue. Mine is mostly about a political operative like Rove being empowered to sic US Attorneys on his political enemies. I very much doubt there is a legal nicety that would make that kosher. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991/78 "2009-10-01T18:10:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’ll offer you a bet, then: if the law is passed, and challenged, it will be upheld as constitutional. $200. What do you say? What a childish response. Homey don’t play dat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-conspiracy-to-destroy-acorn/511991.md?page=3)